Transcript: Council Committee of the Whole Meeting

Fred A. Neil

9th, 2025. I would like to remind the public that public comments are welcome on any item and will be permitted at the appropriate time. You have before you this evening's agenda, and I will entertain a motion for its adoption.

Julia M. Pillsbury

Pillsbury moves to adopt the agenda.

Fred A. Neil

Is there a second?

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Rocha seconds.

Fred A. Neil

And second by Councilman Rocha. All in favor, please say aye.

Multiple Speakers

Aye.

Fred A. Neil

Any opposed? Hearing none, it's unanimously approved. Uh, first on the agenda, we have council reports and we'll start with the First District with Dr. Pillsbury.

Julia M. Pillsbury

Thank you. Um, I attended the tree lighting ceremony last week and it was lovely and um was warmer than last year. Um, there was something else and I can't Oh, I went to a um a function couple weeks ago um for a newly ordained bishop and it was a lovely service and a lovely uh reception. Thank you.

Fred A. Neil

Councilman Rocha.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Thank you, Council President. Yeah, so I'm catching up with uh November. I um attended a joint pension board meeting, uh also um which I think you had even mentioned, uh Council President, the Habitat for Humanity Charity Ball, um also a meeting with the Thunder hockey team with their leaders about potential discussion about the arena. Still working on that. Uh went to the DMAC end-of-year dinner and also attended the Capital Holiday Christmas tree lighting. Uh as you know, I was out there providing the sound for all the choirs out there, and I'm thankful that it was a lot warmer than it was last year, less windy, too. I yield. Thank you.

Fred A. Neil

Second District, Councilwoman Hall.

Donyale M. Hall

Thank you for recognizing me. I attended many of the same events, um, and I had uh quite the flurry of uh constituent uh issues that um definitely I needed to return some calls and refer some things to. We managed to get a pothole fixed and, um, I'm grateful for being able to serve my constituents. I yield.

Fred A. Neil

Okay. Third District, Councilwoman Arndt.

Tricia K. Arndt

Thank you, Council President. I gave the Mr. Lewis is online. Mr. Lewis.

Fred A. Neil

Oh, pardon me. Councilman Lewis, I'm sorry. Didn't realize that you were online. They said we didn't have internet. But you're on? Please, floor is yours.

Brian E. Lewis

All right. Uh, good evening, everybody. Um, this uh this month, I attended uh a couple of uh holiday community events. Uh, I also attended the tree lighting. I attended um DEMCO, uh they had a holiday event uh that I attended um where they were giving out um toys to the children and stuff, and uh this past Saturday, I attended the 50th anniversary

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

of the, um, uh, sorority, um, that was at the Modern Maturity Center. Um, and, other than that, uh, can't feel it's been a lot of people out with, uh, answering, um, constituent concerns in my district, and that's all I have.

Fred A. Neil

Thank you, and apologies for missing you online. Now we will go to Councilman Anderson.

Tricia K. Arndt

Third District. Hold on. Now you're trying to forget me.

Fred A. Neil

Oh, yeah, oh, cuz, wow, that was fast.

Tricia K. Arndt

I'm in your district.

Fred A. Neil

Councilwoman Arndt.

Tricia K. Arndt

Uh, thank you. I gave the opening remarks at the American Planning Association Delaware Chapter annual meeting that was held at, uh, Bally's casino here in Dover. I focused my remarks on the redevelopment of downtown and all the great things that we have going on. Uh, continued coordination within my district and the Capital School District, Dover PD, and the neighborhood regarding parking conflicts uh with bus loading zones at the elementary school. Also attended the tree lighting. It was lovely. Um, worked with code enforcement and Public Works on, uh, wrangling some abandoned shomping shopping carts. Uh, so thanks to them for going out and picking them up and cleaning up the, uh, the city. Um, also responded to some complaints about tree trimming, uh, in the Third District and downtown, uh, the company that is doing the the tree trimming for the electric department. Their concerns about the quality of work. Uh, we are having a the state's urban forester come in and take a look and assess the trees and the tree health and provide some recommendations for the contractor. Thank you. I yield.

Fred A. Neil

Thank you, Councilman Councilwoman Arndt. Dr. Sudler? Dr. Sudler's not here. We'll go to Councilman Anderson.

David L. Anderson

Thank you, Mr. President. Uh, I've had, uh, the opportunity this month Uh, part of it I gave in the report, uh, a couple weeks ago, and, but some items that also to be covered, uh, of course, a lot of it was meeting with, uh, you know, or speaking with, uh, constituents regarding different issues. Um, it mostly, uh, mostly safety issues. Uh, the I also had the opportunity to, um, talk with, uh, the Chamber of Commerce, uh, about, uh, uh, the setting up an event next year with, uh, Toys for Tots. And, uh, it's, and we discussed ways to, uh, do better promotion for the, uh, uh, food bank, um, at the, uh, uh, holiday, uh, tree lighting with a ceremony. Um, and we had, uh, also we have, uh, the I attended the 72nd anniversary of the fer- historic First Baptist Church. Um, that was a, that that was a very positive event. Um,

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

is, and then, of course, there were there's way too many events to be uh to take your time on. Um, but one uh of note, it happened to be the uh Hive on the the Small Business Saturday. That was something that was uh uh very positive that I hope they continue with the uh with the crafts and the small businesses. Uh, I yield, Mr. President.

Fred A. Neil

All right, thank you, sir. Uh, Councilman at-Large Boggerty.

Andre M. Boggerty

Thank you, Council President, for recognizing me. I'll make this brief, and um um thank you for all the participants and some unnamed um council individuals who were able to assist. We uh um we were able to feed 80 individuals for Thanksgiving and provide things like socks, uh warmers, um heated heated blankets, well, you know, the thermal, not heated blankets, and other items uh or for on Thanksgiving morning. So, I want to thank you, and then the other the other items that were left, we were able to take to an appropriate location to donate for their usage. So, um look forward to continue to serve the community in that way. Um, I had a meeting with the Boys and Girls Club and regarding their new their new building that will be closer to the city, um um to discuss how we can make sure we can effectively use use the building, use the new new um services they will provide. I don't want to steal their thunder because I want to think they will be presenting in January, so we can see some of the activities that we'll be able to provide our children to help curb some inactivities. So, met with the property manager at uh actually Harrington ERA to discuss one of the um the a a few issues that they were having with some trespassing and some other challenges within the um within their property. I think one was paintballed, uh so um I want to thank the the Dover PD and the Chief for talk, you know, speaking with me regarding those properties. So, hopefully, uh we'll we'll be able to um quell that issue. Um, and I want to send a special shout out, um I want to spend a send a special shout out, I was uh proud, even though I didn't go to Delaware State University, I was proudly cheering them on um during the Delaware State and South Carolina State MEAC championship. It was a fun, fun time, and um I think the mayor and others were there to cheer on um the great season Delaware State University football had. So, congratulations to Delaware State, and um and um um I also had a follow-up discussion regarding the uh metal detectors for for the building. I'll complete that re preliminary report, send it to send it to those who are co-chairing that or co-sponsoring that to discuss options and to

Roy Sudler, Jr.

will see what what the budget allows pr- um at- prior to presenting. So, I haven't—Council President, I haven't dropped the ball on that. I just want you know we follow up. I just I got the information um November, so, well, um you'll hear that in January's report. I yield.

Fred A. Neil

I thank you, sir. Uh my report: On December 1st, at the invitation of the Central Delaware Chamber of Commerce Executive Committee for a candid discussion on the problems happening in Dover involving the individuals inflicting harm by their uncontrolled actions, I provided them with copies of the Dover Police Quality of Life Initiative as evidence and my article which has since been since been published in the Delaware State News and Bay to Beach online. I attended the Speedway Child- uh Children's Charity Luncheon, where thousands of dollars are distributed to a large number of nonprofits helping children. Along with my council colleagues, I sang my heart out wishing Merry Christmas at the December 4th tr- tree lighting presided over by His Honor the Mayor. I attended the Wild Meadows Homeowners Association community and election meeting. I conversed several times with the Delaware Manufactured Homeowners Association uh leadership in problems dealing with leased land housing. In January, I'm sponsoring an ordinance that adds the requirement of a leased land uh house, new or used, to have a title presented for a license to be placed in the community. Special thanks to Eddie Kopp for all the work that he helped uh in creating this document. Some community owners will obtain a home lacking the required DMV license and sell the home to an unsuspecting buyer. Later, the buyer discovers there's a lien against the title. I continue to work with Councilman Rocha and Councilwoman uh P- Pillsbury with the group renewing their bid to bring a civic arena/ice rink to Schutte Park. It will need legislative approval. I continue to respond to every email, and there are many, pro and con, on the traffic safety ordinance that we will be considering in January. Along with Councilman Rocha and Dover planning uh pl- a planner uh Dawn Melson-Williams, I attended a breakfast meeting this morning hosted by the Housing Alliance on Affordable Housing. And that is my report. And with that, we go to uh Chairman Tricia Arndt to conduct the business of the Parks and Recreation and Community Enhancement Committee.

Tricia K. Arndt

Thank you, Council President. The Parks and Recreation and Community Enhancement Committee will come to order. You have the agenda before you. Is there a motion to adopt the agenda?

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

So moved.

Council Member

Second.

Tricia K. Arndt

Any discussion? All in favor?

Council Members

Aye. Aye.

Tricia K. Arndt

Motion carries. The agenda is adopted. First item on the agenda, we have the Old Post recreation plan, and to brief us on that item, we have Ms. Dawn Melson-Williams, Principal Planner.

Speaker

Um, you may want to check and see if we've still got audio in the back.

Unknown Speaker

Just wing it. Do it old school.

Unknown Speaker

Don't end it, Andre. See if you can just connect to the— is there a different inter- internet source we could use?

Unknown Speaker

The Owl is telling her that she has no connection to the internet. Not strong enough.

Unknown Speaker

It's coming.

Unknown Speaker

It lost, it dropped again.

Unknown Speaker

We do have the one piece.

Dawn Melson-Williams

Just let me know if you what you want me to move forward or pause for a minute.

Unknown Speaker

I was going to say, you have— I still have audio at least.

Unknown Speaker

Not a visual, you'll just have audio.

Dawn Melson-Williams

The meeting is recorded, so we'll just we'll just move forward without the internet.

Unknown Speaker

Recorded, okay.

Dawn Melson-Williams

All right. Um, I'm Dawn Melson-Williams, the principal planner with the city's planning department, and um our office, on behalf of the planning commission, brings to you a uh revised active recreation area plan uh for the project known as the Old Post. Um, the project team does have several representatives here in the audience. So if there's questions with um with anything they're presenting, I'm sure they'd be more than happy to come forward. Um, so the Old Post uh project is located at 55 Loockerman Plaza. Um, that is the old post office location. Um, the project uh earlier in 2025 appeared before the uh Parks and Rec Committee and then um received approval of their site development plan with the planning commission. Uh, however in uh continuing to finalize their project plans, there have been some revisions. Uh, and those revisions have necessitated uh it moving back through a review process including the Historic District Commission, which happened um earlier in November, and then the revisit tonight here with their revised active recreation area plan, uh and it is scheduled for the Planning Commission meeting on Monday, um, December 15th for consideration of the um site plan and associated items. Uh, so this committee um is charged with looking at the active recreation area plan that is proposed uh for the project. Uh, we provided in your packet a report that summarizes kind of the the the code requirements for active recreation areas and then the revisions of the proposed project. Um, the applicant provided uh the pretty color picture of the the red uh L-shaped building which is the proposed building and um its surroundings uh to us this afternoon. Um, a similar non-color version was included already in your meeting packets, so this isn't totally new information for you tonight.

Dawn Melson-Williams

Right. Um with active recreation for residential development, there are requirements in the zoning ordinance. Uh this project location in the downtown redevelopment target area requires 75 square feet of active recreation area per dwelling unit. Um with the revisions to this project, their proposed dwelling units um increased from what was 36 units to now 42 units. Um with that requirement, they are required to provide um 3,150 square feet of um active recreation area. Uh they are proposing to do that in several locations. Uh the east side of the building, which would be the top of the screen along where we find Innovation Way, uh they are proposing a what's called the East Zen Garden. Uh it has a meandering path that you can see there, uh some trees and landscape vegetation, uh there's benches proposed in that area, and also a location for a yoga station. Um the West Zen Garden is on the um west side of the building, um here would be towards the bottom of the screen between the building and what is the parking lot area. Uh that's smaller in size, has vegetation and and several benches where you could rest, uh as well as kind of uh pockets of little green space there. Uh interior to the building on the um second floor of the front portion of the building is a proposal for a gym space where there would be exercise equipment uh that would be accessible to the residents um within the building. Uh we did note in our review that the front part of the building um has a different floor to floor height than the rear addition that is being built here, um so there is a difference in elevation that was originally shown with a series of steps. Um we identified that that it should be more of a ramp system for full accessibility um as accessible apartment units would be available on the first floor of the building. Uh additionally, um related to bicycles, there is an indoor bike storage uh space in the building uh and then a bicycle rack uh on the outside where visitors to the building could certainly park their bikes. Uh so in in total with their uh series of the Zen Garden areas and the gym space, they're providing 4,576 square feet, thus meeting the active recreation area requirement. As part of our report beginning on page 3 and continuing on to page 4 and 5 is a series of staff recommendations regarding the um the plans. Um we just had a series of some items to be clarified. We don't think that they um they impact the ability to approve the plan, but it's details that uh would certainly need to be identified before going to construction. And those are like clearly identifying surface materials for things like the the yoga station area, the walking path,

Dawn Melson-Williams

um ensuring that the the features are fully accessible, such as those benches can someone traverse the path and reach a bench um if they were mobility-challenged, um and uh some things of that nature, you can see those. Uh we also made a recommendation, and this came out of the Parks um Department, is to include a greater mix of trees. Um their tree planting are tend to be focused on one type of tree, and we know if a one bug likes one tree, we don't want to lose all of them. So some diversity there is encouraged. Uh so today uh this is uh presented to the commission for any um comments and recommendations. Your comments and recommendations will be um verbally presented to the Planning Commission when they consider uh the site plan and this active recreation um plan at their meeting next week. Be happy to answer any questions, and as noted, there's members of the project development team here in the room uh that can address you as well.

Tricia K. Arndt

Thank you. Any questions from the committee?

Fred A. Neil

Uh Madam Chair.

Tricia K. Arndt

Mr. Neil.

Fred A. Neil

Uh thank you, Madam Chair. Um first off, I think they're very fortunate because they're right alongside the library and all they have to do is cross the street and there's a plethora of programs that are going to be there whether they have kids in there or not. There's a marvelous set of of of plans. And perhaps as you as envisioned in the master plan for the downtown area, the stretch alongside Mirror Lake that goes from of uh Loockerman to Division is going to be all kinds of activities if it comes to fruition. And again, they're very fortunate in the position that they're in to be able to do that. It doesn't affect what you what they have to do uh with uh our our planning and within our ordinances. But they're in a marvelous marvelous position for anybody who's looking for recreation to have it there and in future coming up. That's the only remarks I'm going to make. I yield.

Tricia K. Arndt

Any other questions or comments?

Donyale M. Hall

I have one question. With regards to the trees, um just to consider not placing them underneath of power lines if there are any power lines on or adjacent to the site, um and making sure it's either the the right tree for the the right spot or just not putting trees under the power lines. Um as I mentioned before, just seeing how the trees are being trimmed under the electric lines, if we could avoid that in the future, that'd be great.

Tricia K. Arndt

And what is the pleasure of the committee?

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

I move to uh accept uh staff recommendation to approve the revised active recreation area plan for this project.

Julia M. Pillsbury

Pillsbury seconds.

Tricia K. Arndt

Any discussion? Hearing none, all in favor?

Council Members

Aye.

Tricia K. Arndt

Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. That concludes the Parks, Recreation, and Community Enhancement Committee. Thank you to our committee members who have joined us, Mr. Lewis and Mr. Cunningham. We appreciate you being here.

Female Speaker

I'll turn it back to you, Council President.

Fred A. Neil

I now recognize Chairman Andre Boggerty to conduct the business of the Safety Advisory and Transportation Committee.

Andre M. Boggerty

Thank you, Council President. I call the Safety Advisory Transportation Committee um, order. I move for adoption of the agenda.

Fred A. Neil

So moved for adoption.

Andre M. Boggerty

It has been properly moved and seconded. For the question, all those in favor, signify by saying aye.

Council Members

Aye.

Andre M. Boggerty

By consent, the motion carries. Um, I now call uh, Jason Lyon, um, a waste- our waste- our water and wastewater director, to update us on the safety concerns on East Loockerman Street. Jason Lyon, the floor is yours.

Jason Lyon

Good evening, committee chair, fellow committee members, Mayor of Dover, and Team Dover. Uh, my name is Jason Lyon. I'm the Director of Water, Wastewater, and Engineering Services uh, here at the City of Dover. Um, I stand before you as part of a team um, that has evaluated this uh, request, which was heard by this committee in late July. Uh, first and foremost, I'd like to commend the folks of the of the East Loockerman Street area, specifically David Suters, who has taken on the the onus of doing the the lifting of this um, this concern. And I believe everything is in in well-meaning and in a good place. Um,

Jason Lyon

so I also want to commend uh, folks from our Public Works team, our fire department, our police department, our city manager's office, and our emergency management and communication team, because, again, this concern is not just affecting one department. Uh, it's several impacts um, throughout the city. So, I do have a presentation, if we could go to that. I'm not sure who's controlling it.

Jason Lyon

And I have to apologize, the font here looks like it's from the 1950s typewriter. I apologize. I think when I-

Andre M. Boggerty

I like it. It's so pleasant that way.

Jason Lyon

Um, when I uploaded the PowerPoint, it it converted to this font. So, there's going to be a couple of things here that are going to look a little bit funky, so I apologize in advance. If we could go to the next slide, please.

Jason Lyon

So, a summary of what happened on July 29th, uh, unfortunately, I was not in the audience uh, for that meeting. Uh, and another apology, the QR code that is on the screen was originally intended to go to the minutes of that meeting. I used a free QR creator app and the it expired. So, I'm not trying to hide anything. You can find the minutes on cityofdover.gov. Uh, it is all there. I, again, apologize for that. So, uh, concerns were raised by multiple citizens about speeding and safety concerns on East Loockerman Street, specifically from um, Halsey Street to uh, Little Creek Road. And there's a map showing this on the next slide.

Jason Lyon

Um, so there was a bunch of discourse. Uh, Councilman Anderson requested a petition to be submitted uh, in accordance with our current petition for street renaming policy, uh, having a majority of of uh, of the residents or property owner signatures uh, signed um, for that area. It was a little unclear in the motion if it was for

City Staff

is Loockerman Street or the entire area, and I'll get to that in a moment.

City Staff

Uh and then, eventually, the motion was made for staff to begin engineering studies, so that is why it is in our our team's hands, uh because of the engineering component to find the best way to achieve closure and replace the digital radar sign.

City Staff

So, um, there was a digital radar sign uh mid mid uh East Loockerman Street uh that was no longer working, uh and if for those of you who have been on the street recently, there is a uh Dover police mobile feed feedback sign that is It's been stationed there uh I believe since uh this meeting concluded.

City Staff

So, uh just another recap of of the studies that were performed by the police department on the street. Uh there had been two studies. Uh there is a memo that is included in this packet that reviews the results of that, but I will summarize for the benefit of the of the of the committee.

City Staff

Uh the 2023 study found that 4% of the vehicles uh were found to be speeding at enforceable speeds, average speed of 25, fastest speed of 54.

City Staff

In 2025, the study was conducted again, and 1% of the vehicles were at enforceable speeds, average speed of 24, fastest speed of 43. Uh we're certainly not denying the fact that there are cars that drive faster than the speed limit here.

City Staff

Um so, uh this map shows kind of the area in question. So if you are looking um near the Burger King, which is on Route 13 in the bottom of that image, uh going east on Loockerman Street, you'll enter into what I would call this um development. So Loockerman Street is the the cursor that's going down, uh that continues all the way out to uh East Division Street or Little Creek Road.

City Staff

Um so there are 37 properties that face Loockerman Street from that pond to East Division Street.

City Staff

Uh I would contend that closing off a road in this uh function would it impact the entire community, not just the folks on East Loockerman Street. So I had uh reached out to Council for some interpretation about the petition with regard to whether it be for just East Loockerman Street or the people that also be affected by it, um and that is why we're here tonight, partially, um so that we can get some clarity on that.

City Staff

Now just to keep in mind, the number of properties that would be impacted by this would be 103 properties. That includes the properties that face Division Street, because they would utilize that road, the entry point into East Loockerman Street, to potentially access their house. So, um again, just keep that in mind, 103. Uh if we're looking just at Loockerman Street, it's 37. Uh next slide, please.

City Staff

Uh so we received a the petition from Mr. Suthers on or around uh November I'm sorry, September 10th. Um we had uh It is also included in this packet, if you'd like to look at it. The um the line items were 21 um I guess signatures,

Mark Novak

I should mention that 15 are unique separate property owners. And what I mean by that is there were multiple signatures from the same address. There were a couple of address of signatures that did not have an address aligned with it, so I just made the assumption that they were from Loockerman Street. There is one property owner from South Halsey Road on the petition. So with this in mind, if we were to utilize the East Loockerman Street properties of 37, it does not meet the majority of the petition requested by Councilman Anderson during the meeting. So we can go on to the next slide. Now, you know, knowing that there is an issue on the road, we we don't want to leave you with any We like We'd like to provide a a proposal to help curb the issue and something that has been done in the city limits on numerous streets as an example. So, but just a little background on East Loockerman Street, it's 22 ft wide, which is a very narrow street. In fact, if you were to build a street in Dover now, the the most narrow street you could build is 24 ft. So this of course was built before the the current standards. There is no sidewalk on this road, you'll notice, and there are a lot of topography issues without the sidewalk, and there's some hardscape for property owners that go right up to the to the roll curb. And again, according to our current standards in article 6 A- or .13, this size road would not allow parking on either side of the street. Now, the southern side of East Loockerman Street, you can see on the sign, which is the the side kind of facing Luther Towers, does have signs for no parking on that side, but parking is allowed on the northern side currently. Next slide, please.

Mark Novak

So as I mentioned earlier, this was not just a engineering study with one department. This was a collaboration of team members throughout the city. So a lot of folks had some impact on this, and a lot of this stuff you already know, but it's important to put this on the record. Emergency response, if a road was closed, we start having some concerns of mobilizing to a site. If there's a blockage on a on a thoroughfare and getting to that area, you can see some statistics that our friends from the fire department have provided. In the effort of public safety, this would be a deterrent, closing the road. As we have talked about in this body and and multiple other times, the City of Dover does not allow any elevation change on their pavement, so that means no speed bumps, no speed humps, anything that could slow down a vehicle is not allowed in the City of Dover. And if it's on private property, which this is not, private property would require special consideration. Closing down a road would be a precedent for other communities to prohibit access. We have had multiple roads request having closure, one that comes to mind is Independence Boulevard, which was which which was denied.

City Staff

having this precedent could open the door for additional developments to request a closure. Um, and you know, something to consider that East Loockerman Street, publicly owned, publicly maintained, publicly paid for, uh this is a public street, uh and by name it should be open to the public. Um, the last thing I'd like to to note with regard to consideration is, um hypothetically if there is an issue on Route 13 that would require a detour, uh this could be a potential detour to get to Route 8. Um, and if the road was closed, this would not be uh a potential and would limit um vehicles moving through the city and congestion issues. So these are all considerations that our team had thought about. Uh next slide, please.

City Staff

So, as I mentioned earlier, um this happened probably 10 years ago. Weyandt Avenue, we had some complaints of speeding through um from Governors Avenue to New Burton Road. And on the left, you'll see the original picture, which was the exit- pre-existing conditions. And then on the right, what we um what we did was we we striped double yellow with a white shoulder, uh as there's multiple studies out there that indicate that people tend to focus more when there's striping on the road and try to keep themselves in proper alignment with the with the street. Uh this also occurred on Park Park Drive, right in front of uh Mirror Lake. That road previously had no centerline striping or shoulder, um and it was a wider road, and it induced a little bit more speeding. Um, so to note, after the fact that we put those that striping in, our the Department of Public Works did not receive any speeding complaints after that. Uh next slide, please.

City Staff

So, um summary, uh we we don't really have the supporting data. Um, I would be remiss if I didn't mention the tragic fatality that occurred on the street, uh but I would also mention that per the police report that is available online, um the individual that was driving the vehicle was under the influence, and the child that passed away that was in the car was not in a restrained seat. So, um there's a little bit of nuance when we hear these these stories. Again, it's tragic. I feel for the family. Um, but again, I don't believe it was due to the to the design of the road, um but by the terrible decision of the driver. So, um striping again, again, striping has been found by many studies to show that that decrease speeding and increase focus for drivers. Uh our our suggestion and recommendation is to try to seek out funding to put a new feedback sign out there, a permanent one, as well as select uh solicit funding from legislators to stripe the road. Now, this is a very crude um depiction of what the road would look like after some striping. Uh I will mention that this striping orientation would remove parking on the north side, okay? So this would be a change for the folk in that uh have um have been used to parking on the north side, um so that would be something that would be considered.

Staff Member

by this body, eventually uh by council. So, keep that in mind. Um I don't have a ton of empirical data, but of the times that I have driven down Lockerman Street, I've probably seen a handful of cars during the day on on the north side of that street parked. Um. So, again, I understand the passion um of the of the constituents. Um I'd be happy to answer any questions of this committee.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

All right. Thank you. Um are there

Unidentified Council Member

be happy to answer, but he had to wait till

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Okay. You can please come up, state your name and and your address and

David Suiters

David Suiters, 791 East Loockerman Street.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Good evening, Mr.

David Suiters

I want you to read this and tell me if you know anything about this. Back in 1992, they had the same meeting here. East Loockerman, two houses were struck. Fatalities. Motorcycle guy went into a living room being chased by the police on that street. And you said the this the width of our street is 22 and it should be regular streets are 24?

Staff Member

The minimum size.

David Suiters

Yeah. You don't You don't live on my street. You don't see the speed sign. You don't see the stuff I see every day. We are Dover residents. You council are here to protect us and our children. You're here to protect us and our children. We're taxpayers. I watch this stuff every day. I'm a truck driver. I watch people on cell phones every day. Our street isn't barely wide enough for two cars going opposite directions. I just found this on Google. Your committee, which you guys probably weren't here cuz this was back in 1992. It was April, matter of fact. And I'm going to give you the exact date. April 28th, 1992 at 12:00 a.m., it was it was their committee here. I talked to I spoke to Mr. uh Anderson, I believe it was, and you said you needed five more? I'm a truck driver. I barely have time to do anything to give you that 22 or 21, or whatever comparisons you want to give me on petitions. This stuff is bullshit! And I hate to use that word, but it is! When that little kid almost Well, almost Or did die right in front of my house, in front of my family, my grandchildren, my mother-in-law can't even get out of a car cuz my driveway's not big enough for them to park. They got to park on the street where he's saying it's legal and almost get hit, six times. I get I got five more for you. And if I got to get the whole neighborhood's petition, I will, but like I told you, just like that all the rest of you, we all work! This is a second job to us. This is another job for me! I'm driving over 300 mi a day. Do you think I have time to get five more for you? And I did today.

Suders

Because of the weather, I ain't working. I found time. And the people that wasn't there when I got the first petition 2 years ago, they're passed on. They died. My petition was very large that first time in two years ago, which I don't know where it happened, it got lost in you guys's offices.

Suders

Money doesn't mean nothing to me. Life means something to me. Our human lives are worth more than money can exist. There is no amount of money for a life.

Suders

That one-year-old shouldn't have died. Yeah, maybe he was under the influence. But you ought to watch what I see every day. That's a that new sign you got out there? It seen 53, it seen 43. They say the courts won't uh do something to a person if he's just doing a couple miles over.

Suders

25 mph. Let me hit you at 25 mph and then go 11 more miles, which is what that police officer or chief said, they won't prosecute unless it's 11 miles over. Imagine 11 more miles on top of 25. Are you going to live through that?

Suders

And you heard the gentleman, our street ain't even wide enough for sidewalks. We don't have room.

Off Gerald L Rocha Sr

Mr. Suders, thank you for your passion. Um, we do have to obey the three the three-minute rule. We If If you can do me a favor, if you can turn those extra signatures in to our City Clerk's office to be counted, um, so we can, um, add those to the count. Um, so, again, we hear you, and, um, with that said, thank you. And And if you want to also email me or text me you that that article to add to your record—

Suders

You give me an email, I'll send it right to you, yes.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Actually, I you

Suders

It's on your records cuz it comes under the City of Dover.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Okay, but I in '92, I I literally just got stationed here in February. Yeah, yeah.

Suders

I understand. You guys was not probably even here.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Yeah, I got stationed here in February of '92.

Suders

But what gets me is we had a guy in a motorcycle go through a house, a kid die. What's it going to take for this Council to realize our children's lives mean something more than money?

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

And I do feel we we have the same feeling, trust me. So, but I I have to—

Suders

I can't If If you I'm going to tell you right now, you're going to lock me up when one of these by these cars hit my grandchildren cuz I'm going to kill that person. I'm going to literally beat the shit out of him or take my truck and drive right over him.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Mr. Suders, I don't want you to have to say that on the record. I understand. I don't think you would do that.

Suders

I don't want to do that! But you guys are looking I feel like this is a joke. This meeting is a joke cuz our words don't mean nothing to you.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Yes, sir, Mr. Suders.

Suders

I don't go by his predictions or what his analyses are. I see it every day. I live there. Jeremy, he lives there. Maria lives there. I can give you all my neighbors' names cuz I we are a family. Our neighborhood is a family.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

I hear you, Mr. Suders. Thank you, and again, if you want to get that to me, and I and I and I definitely respect—

Andre M. Boggerty

like your passion, so does I, and I completely understand. Um, are there any more questions or comments? Um, the Chair recognizes, uh, Ms. Mack, and then, uh, Councilman Anderson and Councilman Rocha, in that order.

Ms. Mack

So that, um, the constituent doesn't have to be getting petitions himself, I'm inquiring to find out, um, where is this petition advertised? Um, was it sent to all residents along with their maybe utility bill or at the bottom of their utility in that area? How are we getting that petition to the people who are that live in that area so that you can get, um, more petition signatures? Um, I do know it's a problem because more than five people have, uh, hit me up about what they can do and how they can organize around it, but, um, I was not, I did not know there was a petition out there. So where is that petition for them so that they can get to it easily and not having to go through this man who is trying to provide for his family?

Andre M. Boggerty

Oh, sure.

Jason Lyon

Uh, for the record, Jason Lyon. Um, so the petition, as directed through the July meeting, was requested by the requestor. It was not provided by the City of Dover.

Ms. Mack

So, no one knows how to, where it's at?

Jason Lyon

Well, we we received it from Mr. Souter. He took the ball and he got the signatures. It was not a it was not a a petition driven by the City of Dover. It was driven by the requestor, per the minutes.

Andre M. Boggerty

Does that satisfy your answer right now, Ms. Mack?

Ms. Mack

It'll have to be. Um, I think if we're trying to ask for the City Council, you know, to do something or it's inside of this committee, as the city, can we help boost that for the people in that area? Um, who is is this Mr. Souter? You're Mr. Souter? Can he request some help so he can get the signatures?

Andre M. Boggerty

Um, that's a good question. As a practice, has that happened before? No. So, as a practice, I'm I'm not I'm not sure that that has happened before because it will, you know, it's a petition. It could, yeah, it would it would mean that we're in favor of something when we have to stay neutral.

Ms. Mack

Thank you for letting me know, uh, Councilman-at-Large Boggerty. I appreciate that.

Andre M. Boggerty

You're welcome. Yes, ma'am.

Andre M. Boggerty

All right. Uh, thank you. Does that satisfy? Does that satisfy, Ms. Mack, are you are you satisfied? Good. Uh, the Chair recognizes Councilman Rocha...

Andre M. Boggerty

Anderson first? Chair recognizes Councilman Anderson.

David L. Anderson

Thank you. Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. All right. I, um, now that...

Roy Sudler, Jr.

we potentially have the required number of signatures from Loockerman Street, um, I wanted to know if we could, um, do something temporary and then, uh, survey the residents. Um, cuz what I would, because that this road, unlike others, which the average road is in the city is 36 feet. Is that correct?

Jason Lyon

So we have a variety of road widths in the city. Um, I don't know the average.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Between 30 and 36.

Jason Lyon

We generally have more than 24 feet wide.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Right. 24 is the minimum.

Jason Lyon

Correct, at this point in time.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Right. Usually it's 30 to 36 if you're building.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Now, um, uh, my question has to do if, um, is it is there a mechanism to essentially put some like a temporary closure or delineators or anything and and basically have put a sign up, "Emergency Access Only" for that area and not permanently close it, but but just, uh, basically put the delineators up there, put a sign, "Emergency Access Only," and then we could, uh, survey the residents or have a town hall or something, and find out in the spring what people feel about it. Uh, and then we could present all of the the options, cuz while these options are are getting prepared, we could, um, maybe we could see what the residents feel a- after they've had a a few months of a, um, of a closure that's, uh, that's could easily be removed. What What Would you think about that?

Jason Lyon

I believe that would be a councilmatic decision that could be achieved. Uh, that is ultimately from this body to make that recommendation and and and vote on that. Um, you know, it could be as simple as putting up what's called a trailblazer, which is a it's a chevron sign that has three billboard, maybe like um you've seen them at construction sites, right? They have three different panels, and they stand up, and they have sandbags in the back of them. Um, again, um, as an engineering practice, uh, the the Delaware MUTCD, which is the Manual on Uniform uh Traffic Control Devices and um, the standards of what they This is pretty silent, okay? So when road closures come up, it's generally in the in the eye of the municipality. I, as an engineer, our my charge is to provide data. Um, and I understand there's passion to this, and I do appreciate it. I'm looking at this as objectively as I can, um, and understanding what kind of precedent and what this could do for for future developments. Um, so it could be done. I would mention that we have conversed with DelDOT. This is not a DelDOT road. Uh, everything east of Route 13 for East Loockerman Street, including where Burger King is, that is city-owned street. Now, they had said if

Jason Lyon

if we're going to put any sort of notification that maybe we're doing temporary closure, and if we put that sign on Route 13, then we need to get approval from them. Like a variable message uh a variable message sign um would need to be approved by DelDOT if we go in that route. But to answer your question, um it could be done if that is the deci- is the the desire of this committee.

Brian E. Lewis

I, it's a, it's not an easy call, because I agree with Mr. Sudler 100%, but uh weirdly enough, also agree with you, because uh there's good points uh particularly, um my big concern is emergency response time. Um that's i- in my ideal world, I would love it if we could find a solution where that could be an em- where we could make it so that it could be an em- emergency-only entrance. Um, I I'm I'm wondering, how can how can we accomplish that?

Jason Lyon

Uh, well we we we could have um the I mean any number of ways. Um talking to the fire department um as I mentioned earlier, and they've mentioned in this body that they're not in favor of it because of this emergency hat. Um, but I would say that there could be some sort of mechanized equipment that would need to be maintained, uh monitored to make sure it's working correctly. Um there could be um bollards that are put up, very similar to what you see at the Del State downtown campus, which they can um they can retract into the ground. However, if that is the case, then the the fire department has to get out of their truck, unlock it, and lower it. Um so there there there are options out there. Um, but again, just keep in mind that this is if we're going with a mechanical gate, there are going to be some deterrents to that.

Brian E. Lewis

Thank you. Um Mr. Mr. Chairman, um there may be other ideas um for the purpose of just the limited purpose of ideas on this, I request permission to yield to Mr. Sudler.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

I request—

Andre M. Boggerty

No, I want to hear I want to hear, I will come back to Mr. Sudler.

Brian E. Lewis

That's fine.

Andre M. Boggerty

I want to hear from Mr. Rocha first. I'm going to come back to you, but I want to give everybody—

Brian E. Lewis

That's That's fine, and that's that's why I just requested it, and that and I uh appreciate that.

Andre M. Boggerty

I appreciate it.

Brian E. Lewis

And uh at this time I'm going to yield, Mr. Chairman, to Councilman Rocha.

Andre M. Boggerty

Councilman Rocha.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um so I know that the emergency response has been brought up and and everything, but has anybody, you know, did a study or measured how much time it would take to get from Governors Avenue down Division Street and into East Loockerman

Andre M. Boggerty

versus, like how many how many seconds? Because it can't it can't be, it's not like we're going out to Cheswold or anything like that, so.

Jason Lyon

Understood.

Andre M. Boggerty

You know, it's right in our backyard, so to speak. How much time are we saving, especially if we use Councilman Anderson's idea of putting up a temporary block in the road, which would mean, you know, for fire, for instance, would have to get out, move the mechanism, whatever it is, and then go down East Loockerman versus going down Division and making the right on, um, what is it, Edgehill? South Edgehill, correct. South Edgehill, and and then turning left on, uh, East Loockerman there. Did anybody measure how much time the time difference?

Jason Lyon

Uh, good question. I'm I'm reviewing the memo that was included in the packet, see if we can But I believe the Fire Marshal had a a note on there. Um, unfortunately, there's no, uh, hard data. It was really just the fact that every uh, every 30 seconds, sir, could be some significant damage. So, I don't have the answer to that. Uh, our team would be happy to to find that out if you'd like.

Andre M. Boggerty

And, um, right now it's going east to East Loockerman and going in. Is there any, um, thought to changing the direction?

Jason Lyon

So, that, um, that that road was changed from a two-way to a one-way, um, many years ago. I don't really I may defer to the mayor on that one. Uh,

Andre M. Boggerty

I think I recall that myself.

Robin R. Christiansen

Are you being funny?

Jason Lyon

Evidently not. Um, so, So, uh, that was to deter people from coming from Route 1 as you're coming into town and cutting through the development as kind of a bypass instead of waiting at the light at Division Street and Route 13.

Andre M. Boggerty

And just let people out of the development.

Jason Lyon

Right. Yeah, they would they would have to come out the other way. So, the entrance point was remained coming to the east to allow vehicular traffic to come that direction, but not go the other way because there's so many people coming in from Route 1 down Route 8 into into town.

Andre M. Boggerty

And uh it's only one entrance. You can only go in one way and not come out that way. It's not two-way uh traffic, right?

Jason Lyon

Uh, at the point next to the Burger King, correct. That's a one-way. That little uh, could we go to the map? Thank you. Uh, it's that little stretch Thank you. that little stretch that's kind of just north of that pond that you can see. Yeah, perfect, right in there. So, you can If you're coming from uh if you're coming from Little Creek and you come down East Loockerman Street towards Burger King, uh you can you have to take a right at Edgehill Drive, you can't continue.

Andre M. Boggerty

Right. And for some reason I think I remember you couldn't turn into it at one point, I think when I first got here, I think. I don't know, maybe it's before my time, but I wanted to say that uh, I

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

you know, uh I thought they didn't allow the traffic to come from Route- well, not Route 1, but uh Route 13, going in.

Mr. Suthers

I don't- I'm not aware of that.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Yeah. Um, okay. Uh at this time, I yield. I want to hear what- what the Mayor has to say.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Thank you. Uh, the Mayor, Smack, and then I'll turn it back to a Mr. Suthers. So the Mayor, Miss Smack, and Suthers in that order.

Robin R. Christiansen

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. uh Ms. Mandy, or I yield my time to you, and uh if you'll come back to me, sir.

Mandy Smack

Isn't that nice of you, buddy? I mean, Mayor. I've got a question. Um, I've almost had an accident because I know it's a one-way. Is it possible on that street, and Mr. Suthers, you can ask- answer when you come up, cuz I immediately make that first left so I can get over to White Oak. But I did not know the whole street was one-way. Maybe we need to get more signs? Just- I'm sorry.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Just that- just that area when you turn-

Mandy Smack

Oh, just that one area. Okay, my- my bad. I didn't know that. Okay, so thank you, uh Councilman Rocha, for asking because I wanted to know- I was going to ask how many minutes. How many feet is that South- that road that you know where you make the first left, you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. The South Edgehill, how many feet is that in there? It looks to be to me maybe 100 feet. Is that really going to- I really want to know the answer to that. Is that really, like, a lot of time in their response time that it's going to take away? Because instead of coming down by Burger King, they could just go by CVS to still get, if there is an emergency, to still get to those addresses that are closer to um Burger King. And I'm in agreeance with uh Councilman Anderson about putting up something temporary until we resolve it, because it is a hazard. Um just seeing if how soon you can get those answers.

Mr. Suthers

Uh yeah, I can get that in a day. I'm sorry. Uh I'd be happy to get those answers within the day. I can get that that data for you. Um just keep in mind, um while the the timing of it is probably not um... is not going to be great, I will I'll admit that. Keep in mind and there are developments in this city that um uh Emerald Point comes to mind, was built with the assumption that it would have a connector street to it and that development hasn't happened, so there's only one means of egress. So just keep in mind when there's only one means of egress into a development, there could be additional issues with that. Um especially if there is something else on the road that blocks it. Just making sure that everyone knows that those are other considerations to take. But to answer your initial question, I'll be happy to get that data for this committee within a day.

Mandy Smack

Thank you.

Mr. Suthers

You're welcome.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Thank you. Thank you. Uh Mr. Mayor?

Robin R. Christiansen

I yield to my honorable friend the Council President, because I'm going to have a-

Unknown Speaker

a long dissertation.

Andre M. Boggerty

Council Council President Neil.

Fred A. Neil

Uh thank you. Um it's kind of funny. Uh we're accused of not caring about traffic safety, and we have a traffic safety ordinance that's coming up that people are fighting, and they don't want they're not concerned about someone who's standing in medians getting hit and killed or injured, whatever. But we do care about this. Now, there is a delineation that is at the six-way on Governors Avenue. Basically, those things will collapse very easily. Would that be more effective? And again, it's a traffic mind that I, you know, that I think that experts can tell us. So that if a fire engine is coming down there with the delineators and they hit it, that's not going to make a difference. But if it slows down a car who really doesn't realize how flimsy they really are, or even if they do, it's just it's an indication that is a real problem more so than what we've even talked about.

Fred A. Neil

So I would think in terms of having those delineators coming up, they're sticking up, you can't miss it. And I would hope that it would have an effect. That is, at least I'm putting it out as a consideration in terms of uh what we're considering here, because we do care about traffic safety. We do care about people being hurt. And I just received an article from the uh uh Washington Post uh concerning this is happening all over the country, this speeding and and and the like. This is a major problem in the country. And of course, it's a problem in all of our neighborhoods. I yield.

Andre M. Boggerty

Thank you, Council President. The Mayor. Council

Robin R. Christiansen

Thanks, sir. Um oh, thank you for your presentation, Mr. Lyon. Uh 33 years ago, I was the council president, Mr. Sudler, when the issue came after the motorcycle accident on East Loockerman Street. And the problems that they were having on East Loockerman Street at that time were exacerbated when we put Heartburn Alley in. And for those of you who are too young to remember this, Heartburn Alley is where all the restaurants were: the Taco Bell and everything. Um the traffic We were having issues with the alley behind the Edgehill Shopping Center. Uh we took care of that. We had issues with the traffic uh going onto East Loockerman Street, and it was two-way traffic at the time at that one point there, that small portion by the tree farm. And we changed that up so that you could only go onto East Loockerman Street. Uh we've not really made any improvements on that. So I'm going to call two experts up if I can, uh Chairman Boggerty, if I can call real quick.

Brian E. Lewis

the dangers of time elapsed by barriers to fire apparatus. Chief?

Roy Sudler, Jr.

The chair recognizes, oh.

Jason Osika

Thank you. Jason Osika, Deputy Director of Emergency Management. Um, I think the report Jason Lyon provided has the facts in it. Um, fires do double every 30 seconds in size, especially with uh the materials you have now, newer furniture, it's not things aren't made the way they used to be. Um, but I want to back up. I wasn't in the meeting, but there was an internal staff meeting I think. Jason, were you there? With So that was with, um, I know we're focused on fire department. That was with police, fire, and EMS. So there's three components to emergency services. Um, there was a recent fire, uh, at the end of that, they the fire company used that pathway to get there. Yes, they can take other ways. That is going to be time consuming, but, um, I think some other topics that were talked about is the CPR where now you're down to 10 seconds makes a difference on getting someone there. The police pursuit, um, them trying to get to a call, whether it's, uh, someone breaking into a house. Um, we're just providing the information. It's up to this committee and then council to make the ultimate decision. Um, within that, it's my understanding, um, they did discuss several different mechanisms, such as bollards, uh, gates. Um,

Jason Osika

if they did bollards, um, I like the ones that the fire trucks can hit and just snap right off, but then you're replacing pins every time. Um, but also that's if cars figure that out, they're going to be able to do that too. Um, and I think the conclusion was if they were going to do any type of mechanism, they're probably just going to take the alternative route because of the time it's going to take to get out and open a gate or take down the bollards. Is that correct? Um, and that was the consensus of, I don't want to speak for for EMS, fire, and police, but it's my understanding that's what the consensus was with everyone. Um, so I I think that kind of answers your question.

Brian E. Lewis

Chief, I didn't mean to put you on the spot, but thank you for your input. Now I'd like to call another expert. Mr. Will Garfinkel, would you come to the podium, please, and tell us about your experience with the traffic-calming devices on Independence Boulevard? And by the way, I think you'll get double pay for this.

Will Garfinkel

Call me up anytime.

Brian E. Lewis

So, Mr. Garfinkel... Mr. Chairman, if I might continue?

Roy Sudler, Jr.

The chair recognizes Mr. Garfinkel and permission to dialogue.

Brian E. Lewis

Mr. Garfinkel, would you please expound to us the success or failure of the traffic-calming devices in your neighborhood on Independence Boulevard?

Will Garfinkel

All right. Independence Boulevard is a through street that goes from Route 8 all the way to Walker Road. Uh, I moved there in 1983. There was nothing around us. Very little traffic, very little anything. Um, but it became obvious that we saw more and more and more traffic over the years till it became absolutely

Public Commenter

dangerous for children to play in Continental Park or uh walk up and down streets. Even today, I saw people pass on the double yellow lines, and um I saw tractor trailer run over the roundabout.

Public Commenter

They They can't make it. They just They don't care. But um the traffic calming devices that were put in did a great job.

Public Commenter

You can't go around that roundabout more than 15 miles an hour. Um they put a couple chicanes in, uh slows you down.

Public Commenter

You know you're having a discussion about uh strict enforcement of 25 miles an hour. You really got to try hard not to to to do 25 in on Independence Boulevard.

Public Commenter

The The traffic calming devices that were And they were designed by the Office of Traffic Calming at DelDOT. We asked the experts to come in, well, you did actually, the city did. And they did a whole design for us, for nothing, free, and it works.

Public Commenter

You can actually walk up and down Independence Boulevard without being afraid you're going to get hit or a car is going to veer off. Uh so I don't want to belabor the point, but um

Public Commenter

yeah, wi- without without that traffic without all that traffic calming, that street would become unlivable and extremely dangerous. And

Public Commenter

I don't know, Mr. Mayor, was anything else you want me to say or?

Robin R. Christiansen

Now, that's that's fine. That's a great testimonial.

Robin R. Christiansen

I I you may step down, please.

Public Commenter

Pardon?

Robin R. Christiansen

You may step down. Thank you.

Public Commenter

Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Robin R. Christiansen

So Mr. Chairman, in view of the fact that once again 33 years later we are addressing the issue of traffic safety on East Loockerman Street with no disrespect to Jason Mr. Lyons, he has done a excellent job.

Robin R. Christiansen

Chief Osika provided us with the information that we need. I think it would behoove us to reach out to DelDOT or the appropriate authority to look at what kind of traffic-calming devices would be amenable to that particular area, as they have done uh on Independence Boulevard, which is basically the same situation that we face uh today with East uh Loockerman Street, reach out to the local representatives for community uh transportation funding, if there is any, to accommodate uh whatever solution DelDOT would come up with us as our partners, like the Office of Traffic Safety.

Robin R. Christiansen

So that would be my recommendation, Mr. Chairman, and now I know why you keep me around here, because I have a lot of history. 33 years later, we're still talking about the same thing, as we are other things, over and over and over again. I yield.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor, for your input, and um

Roy Sudler, Jr.

I attempted to capture your recommendation, but I'm pretty sure we'll get it. The chair recognizes Councilwoman Dr. Pillsbury.

Julia M. Pillsbury

Thank you. I was going to bring up the Independence Boulevard changes, and it really does slow you down. In fact, I wonder how the fire department is even supposed to get through there if there's an emergency. But because that circle is huge. So I figure you ride over it and go straight down. But um that was going to be my question was could you do some of the things that they did on Independence Boulevard and possibly put a circle where there's an intersecting street and so forth, um to slow the traffic down?

Jason Lyon

Um, for the record, Jason Lyon. Um, I'm not going to say it can't be done, but I would mention Independence Boulevard is much wider than this road. The right-of-way is much more narrow as well. So if we're going to talk about traffic circles to meet the proper radius to get a vehicle around there, um, many of you have probably driven on Mifflin Road, correct? Mifflin Road has a roundabout that is not built to the proper size. It is much smaller.

Jason Lyon

Um, Independence has a much bigger diameter, uh, causing a little bit easier uh navigation. So, uh, there are other options, of course. Um, they if you've driven down uh North State Street near the cemetery, they have little bump-outs with um with curb to kind of channel you into an area. Um, concerns with that are potentially drainage. What that would be hashed out in a study, um, because you have to make sure that the water can get where it needs to go and not get caught up in in some sort of a a hardscape. Um, but it yeah, there there could certainly be options there for that.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Thank you, Dr. Pillsbury. Are you does that conclude?

Julia M. Pillsbury

Yes, I'm sorry. I yield.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

No, that's fine. No problem. The chair recognizes Councilwoman Hall.

Donyale M. Hall

Thank you for recognizing me. Um, Jason, as a part of your study, will that identify um could it possibly identify where there are areas where the road could be widened, as is the right-of-way built in such a way to where there could be some accommodations? Because I know I've seen in my district um we've had like some regrading, and they're currently um actually on my corner of Post and uh uh uh Webbs Lane, they're actually widening the sidewalk there. And so I'm I'm just curious, um because that area is so narrow, is there an opportunity to um redo some of the civil engineering along that that roadway to um make some more accommodations that would allow for something like sidewalks or a wider girth where if people are parking, um I know that that, you know, I'm I'm just not sure what the right-of-way is on that street. I'm I'm just talking out loud, I'm not um I'm asking for, you know, you to possibly put in

Donyale M. Hall

um, some research to come back to us to say, you know, this is what it would cost, this is who would be the person who would absorb that cost, and yes, it is or no, it isn't possible. Thank you. I yield.

City Staff

So, um, the short answer is anything's possible with money. Um, engineering, uh, in local government is doing the best you can with the resources that you have. So, um, the the short answer to your question would be there probably need to be some right-of-way acquisition to make the necessary, uh, adjustments specifically with sidewalk. There would need to be some some right-of-way, um, purchasing, either that or permanent easement, um, which would need to be signed off by every property owner, uh, on that street. But it's option, sure.

Donyale M. Hall

Thank you so much. I just want to give the constituents some options. And if they're amenable to having some of those things done and it's possible, at least, um, fielding the questions in in my mind is just reasonable. Thank you so much. I yield.

City Staff

You're welcome.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Thank you. The chair recognizes Mr. Suters again if he wishes to share.

Mr. Suters

I'll just tell him that I'd like to ask questions.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Uh, ask direct the questions here, and you can.

Mr. Suters

Okay. Um, as I said, I am a truck driver, and I drive many roads, and I see many things. For one, when an ambulance is being called off to save somebody, the lights change for that that ambulance, and I know why they do it, because it allows them to get to the person quickly. Okay, that's one. Second thing is on Route 1 is the one road, which I know there's many roads like it, the police officers have a a centerpiece of Route 1 to go from the north side to the south side, which is the gates are remote, which is another device that whoever does the lights and does that, they can do it. I don't want to close the road completely because I don't want my life in danger of a few seconds. I don't want you to go around Division Street. My theory is go with the gate that's remote that someone whoever operates the lights and operates the gates for the police officers on Route 1 could open that way before the fire truck comes, way before the police officer come so they can get to us. My thing is if we don't do anything, regardless if that road is open or closed, they got to get to the child that gets run over, or the elderly man that gets hit, or I get hit, which let me point this out. Before I came to your meeting this morning, backing out of my driveway, almost got hit. Gentleman was doing like 42, 43, whatever that sign was saying, it was in the 40s. We had that digital sign at one time in a person's yard. 4:00 in the morning cuz I was up, that's what time I get up to go to work, they plowed that digital sign over. I'm telling you, and there was nowhere to be found. When we went out there, there was no cars. And that was that was built like a you just don't

Mr. Suiters

didn't even know that song was. Mayor, I don't know this gentleman, councilman, I can't see that far away. I agree with all of you. You all been around a lot longer than I have, but the drivers today, they ain't the drivers we grew up to see. And that's why there's so many deaths. On my way over, on the radio, there's been three accidents on my way here, and up in Nu- up north. These people don't know how to drive no more. You- you guys been around this area a lot longer than I have. You've been around a lot longer than me, so you- I- I- I'm- I'm just begging you guys, and I'm asking this gentleman as well. I'm begging y'all. I don't want to see my kids die, my grandchildren get killed. I don't want to see nobody- none of my neighbors, like Jeremy here, I don't want to see none of them get hurt. Our road is 22-foot wide, this gentleman said. The minimum is 24. We have no way of having a sidewalk, so there's no way of dissolving of a sidewalk to make this circle or whatever, which I like that idea. I really do. I would like you to do the same thing to our street, but we don't have it. And you know how that goes: people don't want to give up their property, which me, you can have my property, and- and do whatever you got to do to make that circle. But I just hope that something happens today, cuz receiving an email from y'all telling me I didn't have the majority from 22, 21, whatever you want to say it was, and there's only 36 houses, I don't see how that's not a majority. But I gave you five more today. I'm hoping that five more today and this conversation, something happened with you today is going to be a positive outcome. Cuz I don't want to- I don't want to hurt nobody, but I will tell you, if my grandchildren get hurt, I'm hurting somebody. And y'all are going to bail me out.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Suiters.

Mr. Suiters

Thank you, sir.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Um the chair recognizes Councilwoman Arndt.

Tricia K. Arndt

Thank you. You are not going to like what I have to say. I think we've heard from many constituents about speeding in their neighborhoods within the city. It it is a problem. I agree with you, folks drive like they just don't care at this point. Um, but if we were to close every street and block off every neighborhood when folks come forward with those complaints, very valid complaints, and those and those issues, I think we're setting a a concerning precedent to close the road. I understand that the petition was submitted. I would argue that the petition, the number of names on the petition should correlate to the majority of the neighborhood, not just the one street, cuz folks that live on Halsey are most likely using Loockerman to access their homes, and perhaps even Division if they want to, you know, it's easier to get to their alleys or behind their homes or what have you. I don't think that it has been demonstrated that the majority of

Tricia K. Arndt

of the neighbors want this street closed. I am not seeing convincing evidence of of folks here to to plead the case. Um I do appreciate Mr. Sudler's passion and his willingness to come to this meeting tonight, but I don't see any of his neighbors um expressing those same concerns. Um with respect to the width of the road, a narrower street lends itself to believe it or not, traffic calming. If you widen a street, you're more likely to have folks going faster. Um I don't think widening the street by by any means is is a solution. I think perhaps the striping could work, cuz again that creates that visual um that makes drivers want to go slower. I think having a a a permanent speed sign there that indicates how fast you're going um as a reminder. Um we have talked in the past about putting signs at that entrance that say no through-way, to deter folks from using it as a through-way to get to Route 1. I think if there is an accident or a situation on 13 uh and traffic needs to be directed, having those options and those connections, it's just good planning to be able to have more than one way in and one way out, and to be able to accommodate traffic when a major route is impeded. So, with that said, I would agree with the mayor to take a look at some other options. I appreciate the work that Mr. Lyon has done. I appreciate his his analysis. I appreciate the police department and their analysis of the speeds, and I appreciate the fire department with their analysis of emergency response. I think we need to listen to the experts that have put the time in and collected the data, and go from there. Thank you. I yield.

Fred A. Neil

Mr. Chair.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

The chair recognizes Councilman Neil, and then Councilman Neil. Council President.

Fred A. Neil

Thank you. Um there's another option, you had mentioned traffic circles. But I don't necessarily think that you may need a traffic traffic circle, but I think we do have to get DelDOT into this. The chicane going up the end of of uh uh State Street, is there's a chicane there and the chicane is a very narrow area where you have to kind of squerve around. Now whether your street can handle that or not, but a chicane can be very narrow and yet still require somebody to make basically miss it. They have to make a turn, they're not sending a circle. So that if you can go up to State Street, take a look at it, I think we need to get them in on it and say, okay, here's the situation. When that happens, they talk to the neighbors. You bring the neighbors in and and deal with them, and we'll probably have to get members of the state legislature to finance it, but they'll do that. So I think that there may be a solution with the chicane, and that is a little bit different than what you're

Fred A. Neil

talking about it's not a circle. Uh at, so if you go up to the end of State Street and see exactly what I'm talking about. But I think we have to move as fast as possible. I yield.

Andre M. Boggerty

Thank you. The chair recognizes Ms. May.

Rolanda May

Rolanda May, City of Dover. Um, I do not live in his neighborhood, but I do travel in his neighborhood. And I do want to make one point that in what I was told when I had asked for something, and I'm just saying straight up, he's had that happen in his neighborhood, is someone has to die before something can get done. That's what I was told by a city member, that something, in order for something to get done, there has been many things that happened on that street that something still has not been done. And you've had a death. You've had another death. You've had, you've had so much there. And like I said, my my my street is a different a different day, different time. But this gentleman here has had more than what's happened on my street. And I will still fight for my street and my neighborhood, but right now I'm I'm fighting for his neighborhood because there is one thing that I was told, like I said. Someone died, and it just happened to be a child. There's many children in this neighborhood, and there's many children in all the neighborhoods. Fix one, then worry about fixing the others along with it. But we can all do it by starting with one saying, Council cares. Okay, let's move forward. Let's move this, let's move that. We don't want to see any more deaths. And if you guys aren't going to figure something out for this gentleman here and his neighbors, and he has to bring his whole neighborhood, believe me, I will I will make sure that I help him bring every single neighborhood. I will grab a bus,

Rolanda May

load everybody on it, and bring them here. So, Councilman Neil, your your idea of looking into something, great idea. As soon as that happens for him, let's start looking at other neighborhoods without having a death be the the outcome in order for something to be done. Because there are other children that we need to watch out for, too. Not just his grandchildren, not just mine, not just your guys' grandchildren and children. Every child in this neighborhood needs to be able to grow up just as old as we are. And if we can't enforce traffic, uh, speed limit signs, strictly enforced, guess what? It looks like our police department has to buckle down on the 25 means 25, not 30, 35. That's acceptable? It's not acceptable. So, we need to buckle down on speed limit signs, on on fixing one neighborhood, then worry about fixing other neighborhoods that have the same issue. Thank you.

Andre M. Boggerty

Thank you. Um, well, with that said, doesn't seem like anything else. It sounds as if, if I'm interpreting it right, we're going to ask, um,

Andre M. Boggerty

we're going to ask Mr. Lyon to go back to present more uh options with involving DelDOT. Does that sound—

David L. Anderson

I'll make a motion.

Andre M. Boggerty

Thank you.

David L. Anderson

Um, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that, um, we go back, uh, send this back

Roy Sudler, Jr.

the staff to reach out to DelDOT uh to do a possible study uh particularly with their uh traf- traffic calming division um so that we can come up with more options on what we're going to do on East Loockerman Street.

Donyale M. Hall

Hall seconds.

going to yield to

Properly uh moved and seconded. Are you ready for the question?

David L. Anderson

Under discussion.

going to yield to

Discussion.

David L. Anderson

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I agree with the motion. However, um I would would still I'm still with uh delineators to temporarily um make that emergency access only while we study it, because I'm concerned that that we could be studying and especially when we're it's out of our control 6 months, a year, and uh I I don't know if they can wait that long for some action to take place. So I I move that we look at uh that st- that staff um bring brings back to the next meeting a uh a temporary, I I like delineators, Council President, something that the emergency vehicles could go over and could put a sign emergency access only.

going to yield to

Are you asking to amend the motion?

David L. Anderson

I I'm making I'm moving an amendment to uh to ask staff to uh come back next month with a temporary um recommendation for emergency access only.

Fred A. Neil

Neil seconds.

going to yield to

Can you There was already a motion on the floor.

David L. Anderson

I'm Yes, I'm...

going to yield to

Can you restate the motion?

David L. Anderson

And I'm moving to add an amendment that staff brings back in the next uh uh month uh next, yeah, next meeting a recommendation of to achieve a temporary emergency access only.

going to yield to

So let me attempt to restate the motion for clarity for our public. The the original motion is to uh ask Mr. Lyon to go back to Del to uh to to DelDOT to specifically the traffic calming device division to explore options while in the meantime the second the amendment will be to in the meantime to uh add the delineators as a temporary solution until permanent solution is found. Does that does that capture your motion?

going to yield to

If not, restate it.

David L. Anderson

Well, I I would I liked that, but I wanted the the staff to bring back to us whether it's delineators or a a bollard, um just break, tear-offs in in the next meeting.

going to yield to

I'm going to yield to City Clerk to restate the motion.

City Clerk

All right, can we... that staff reach out to DelDOT to do a study with traffic calming options and to bring back at the next meeting a recommendation to achieve a temporary emergency access only?

going to yield to

Is that amenable...?

Roy Sudler, Jr.

I'm amenable That's amenable with me, yes.

Donyale M. Hall

My second remains.

going to yield to

Thank you. It has been properly moved and second. Are you ready for the question? All those in favor, signify by saying aye.

David L. Anderson

Aye.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Aye. Any opposed? By the consent, the motion carries. I yield the back to Council President, and please excuse me, I had an emergency phone call I must take.

Fred A. Neil

Okay. With the conclusion of that committee, I now recognize Chairman Gerald Rocha to conduct the business of the Utility Committee.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Thank you, Council President. I don't I don't see any I know we had Dr. Asousa online, we lost him, and we don't have any committee members, so I now call the Utility Committee to order, and I will entertain a motion to adopt the agenda for this evening.

Donyale M. Hall

I move that we accept the agenda for this evening.

Julia M. Pillsbury

Pillsbury seconds.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

It's been properly moved and seconded to adopt the agenda. Any questions or discussion on the motion? Hearing and seeing none, all those in favor, please state by saying aye.

Julia M. Pillsbury

Aye.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Any opposed? The ayes have it. The the agenda is adopted. We only have one item on the agenda, and that's the evaluation of bids, water quality improvements, and our water and wastewater director Mr. Jason Lyon is up again. The floor is yours, sir.

Jason Lyon

Uh thank you, Chair. Uh good evening, committee members. Uh Jason Lyon, director of water and wastewater with the city of of Dover. Um, before you this evening is a uh a water quality improvement project that is in line with our water master plan to continue to replace and upgrade existing uh aged infrastructure, uh also undersized infrastructure um in um three different locations: uh two alleys that are um straddling Fairview Ave, um and Queen Street uh from Clara Street down to Lockerman. Um, the the team uh solicited uh from companies that are um on the state uh supplier for of diversity to the State of Delaware. We held a a a an optional pre-bid meeting, uh received six bids for this project. Um if you go to the next sheet, uh you'll see the the uh the array of costs uh for this project. Um quite a bit of a span. Um, we evaluated the submissions, found that Richard E. Pierson Construction Company uh met the requirements of the project. They have, uh for the record, they have done work on our water mains uh in concert with DelDOT um projects, specifically on Salisbury Road. When they did that realignment, uh they worked on our water main to get that out of the way. Uh so we found them to be ample uh contractors. Their price was under budget, uh and the last thing I want to mention with this project is um we received 80% funding on this project from the omnibus package presented through the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. Um so there are federal requirements with this project. Um so there will be prevailing wages and and and other additional requirements, uh but it does uh save the city quite a bit of money. Um so with that being said, I'd be happy to answer any questions

Jason Lyon

And there are maps um of the locations if you are interested and in the packet.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Any any questions for Mr. Lyon?

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Councilwoman Hall, you're recognized.

Donyale M. Hall

Thank you for recognizing me. Jason, you know we've had some um contractors, Bobby Wilson in particular, that's come forward and um made an ask that um especially for federal projects that there be um some subtrac- subcontractor opportunities. Um is this one of those uh moments where um there's some allowance for participation from subcontractors?

Jason Lyon

So the federal law with this package did not require it. There are other federal funds uh that are provided that require a solicitation of at least 15% of the subcontracting work. This does not have that. It is not part of the package.

Donyale M. Hall

Thank you. I just wanted to make that ask, because I know the question was coming.

Jason Lyon

Understood. And uh and for the record, Mr. Wilson was at the pre-bid meeting, and he did get a list of all the bidder uh the companies that asked for the bid um the bid documentation. So he uh he was provided that information.

Donyale M. Hall

I appreciate that. I yield.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Any other discussion? What's the pleasure of the count- uh committee?

Donyale M. Hall

I move that we accept accept staff recommendation um afford for the proposed um cost for uh this project.

Tricia K. Arndt

Second.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

It's been properly moved and seconded to accept staff uh recommendation to award the contract to Richard E. Pierson Construction Company for the water improvement project. Any discu- any further discussion? Uh Councilman Anderson, you're recognized.

David L. Anderson

Mr. Chairman, I just want to say uh great job on reaching out, working it through. Uh the Bipartisan Infrastructure grants aren't exactly the easiest ones to to do, and I want to just say to not only you, but the staff, the whole department that worked on that, thank you. I yield.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Thank you, Councilman Anderson. Uh with that said, are we ready for the question? All those in favor, please state by saying aye.

Fred A. Neil

Roll, voice vote. No, you know, individual vote. Roll call.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Oh, it Oh, it's money, yeah. Uh uh Madam Clerk, please call the roll.

City Clerk

Ms. Hall?

Donyale M. Hall

Yes.

City Clerk

Mr. Boggerty?

Andre M. Boggerty

Yes.

City Clerk

Mr. Anderson?

David L. Anderson

Yes.

City Clerk

Dr. Pillsbury?

Julia M. Pillsbury

Yes.

City Clerk

Ms. Arndt?

Tricia K. Arndt

Yes.

City Clerk

Council President Neil?

Fred A. Neil

Yes.

City Clerk

Mr. Rocha?

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Yes.

City Clerk

So, seven to zero, four absent.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

The uh motion passes. The contract is awarded to Richard E. Pierson. Thank you uh Mr. Lyon.

Jason Lyon

Thank you very much. Have a good night.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

And uh if there's no no further business for the Utility Committee, I now call the Utility Committee adjourned. And I turn it over back over to Council President Neil.

Fred A. Neil

I now recognize Chairman David Anderson to conduct the business of the Legislative, Finance, and Administration Committee.

David L. Anderson

Thank you.

Fred A. Neil

Floor is yours.

David L. Anderson

Thank you, Mr. President. The Legislative, Finance, and Administration Committee is now called

David L. Anderson

to order, and we'll stand at ease for a moment to allow uh committee members to assume their places.

David L. Anderson

Thank you gentlemen for coming out tonight. We're going to get you home before 11:00 tonight.

David L. Anderson

The uh first order of business is I will now entertain a motion to adopt the agenda for Legislative Finance and Administration Committee.

David Garfinkel

So moved.

David L. Anderson

It's been moved by Mr. Garfinkel.

Unknown Speaker

Second.

David L. Anderson

Seconded by multiple people. Uh all those in Is there discussion? All those in favor?

Committee Members

Aye. Aye. Aye.

David L. Anderson

Any opposed? None. Motion carried.

David L. Anderson

First order of business is proposed Ordinance 2025-25 amending Appendix F, fees, fines, Chapter 46, Fire Prevention and Protection. Mr. Jason Osika, Deputy Director of Emergency Management and Communications, you are recognized.

Jason Osika

Thank you. Uh Jason Osika, Deputy Director of Emergency Management and Communications. This is more of a housekeeping item. Um I received uh notification from the State Fire Marshal, John Rudd, uh in reference to some fee changes that are taking place effective January 1 of '26. Um basically, the fire alarm and sprinkler contractors that go out charge a $25 fee, which then goes back to uh the state. In this case, it would go to the municipality. Um the current code has a discount for apartment buildings and complexes. That will no longer apply. Um this amends our fees to match that with the state. It uh allows um continuity with the state and eliminates any type of confusion with the fire suppression and alarm companies. They're going to end up sending that check uh to that amount to us anyway. Um so right now, uh if you go I have the State Fire Marshal's letter in the packet. Um if you go to page, I think, 41, that's where the main stuff is. Um if you had an apartment building of five or less buildings, it was only a $25 fee. If you had more than five buildings, it was a $15 fee uh with a max at 20 buildings, uh max fee of up to $300. So, they had like a prorated system for apartment complexes. It's going to a flat rate. Every building is $25. Um and I think that's something they found an issue with one of the laws. So, that's what we have there, and I'll take any questions.

David L. Anderson

Questions? Uh seeing none, what is the pleasure of the committee?

Donyale M. Hall

I recommend that we uh accept staff recommendation, forward the proposal for Ordinance 2025-25 to City Council for approval.

Andre M. Boggerty

Boggerty seconds.

David L. Anderson

It's been moved by uh Councilwoman Hall, seconded by uh Councilman Boggerty uh to basically approve the staff recommendation and recommend approval by City Council. Um any discussion? Thank you for your work on this. All those in favor

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Favor?

Council Members

Aye. Aye.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Any opposed?

Unknown

Motion carries.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Motion carries.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Thank you. That brings us to next item of business, which is quarterly budget review. Mr. Hugg, and you may bring whoever you like. Welcome.

Dave Hugg

Good evening. Dave Hugg, City Manager. With me is our our our budget analyst, budget whatever your correct title is these days, Jeff. Jeff Dill, who's actually the man who knows how all the all the money's hidden and all that kind of stuff. We're going to give you a little a kind of a brief snapshot to today, and the only thing I want to say before I turn it back to Jeff is that this is a snapshot. And a snapshot is a point in time.

Dave Hugg

I would probably say to you that the numbers on this page are already different than they were this morning, and they'll probably be different again tomorrow. So it's difficult, particularly at at four, five months, three months into a budget year, to really kind of ascertain just exactly where you where you are, just because the way our revenues and expenditures work. But we are going to give you just kind of an overview at least, and then we'll both be here to answer questions, and Patricia Marney, our Controller/Treasurer is also,

Patricia Marney

I'm here.

Dave Hugg

someplace, and is available to to answer questions as well. So if you're fine, I'd like to ask Jeff to take over.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Absolutely.

Dave Hugg

Thanks, Jeff.

Jeff Dill

Thank you.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Welcome.

Jeff Dill

Hi. Good evening. Jeff Dill, budget analyst, City of Dover. I'm just going to go over a few slides here.

Jeff Dill

So again, this is as of October, just a four-month snapshot. We're we're looking at basically almost $31 million in revenue, $20 million in expense. Again, you have to realize that that that revenue is is front-loaded. And if you turn to the next page, you'll see some of what makes up that revenue.

Jeff Dill

We've basically got $17 million from our property tax pilot and penalties, which is about 99% of what we predicted for the budget. Court of Chancery fees were at $1.8 million, that's 41% of a $4.5 million budget. Business licenses, 1.5, $1.5 million. Again, that's 98%. Transfer taxes were right around $845,000 of a $2.4 million budget, that's 35%.

Jeff Dill

ERLSP is the one kind of odd one that's out there. We we only budgeted $50,000 for that, which we've only budgeted $50,000 maybe last year as well. We used to budget a lot more. There was something took place there where a new vendor came in to control it or something happened. Anyway, we have just received all of the 2024 revenue

City Staff

um it was uh most of that $457,800. So again, that's why you see 916% of budget.

City Staff

Expenses, nothing really jumps out. Again, you have to realize when you're talking about the operating fund, you've got departments acting at different intervals. Some of them, again, front-loaded expenses, everything they purchase up front. Some they wait till later in the year, so the the one glaring thing that I wanted to kind of point out is our legal fees. We budgeted $400,000 this for FY26, which was more than double what we've ever done in the past, and we're we may run through that $400,000 budget this year, so just just to be aware of that.

City Staff

We did just secure our insurance for 2025-26. That's going up basically 6% to 1.1 million.

City Staff

Next slide is the water fund. You can see basically as of October, 3.8 million in revenue, 2.7 in expense. Everything is relatively stable as far as that 33% threshold that we're looking for.

City Staff

Just one other thing to point out, miscellaneous income, it was at 511%. We only budgeted about $74,000 for miscellaneous income. We're currently at $379,000. That was based on a class-action lawsuit that the city was part of, having to do with the PFAS.

City Staff

And then just real quickly, CIP for the water fund, we've basically spent about $800,000 on projects so far for these 4 months of FY26.

City Staff

Next slide, wastewater. Again, revenue 3.5, total expenses 4.1. We are kind of looking into what is going on there. Our sewer revenue and Kent County fees are down. They're only at 26% when we would, you know, look to look for them to be around 33% at this point. There was a refund given. We're kind of looking into what what caused all of that. I don't have any answers to that right now, but I can surely, you know, get that for you.

City Staff

Again, wastewater CIP, they've basically spent $650,000 so far. A lot of these you see are us actually finishing previous year projects, so a lot of these would be FY25 projects we're trying to to finish up before we dig into FY26.

City Staff

And lastly, the electric fund. You can see 36 million in revenue, almost 37 million in revenue, total expenses of 38 million. As far as revenues go, when you look at all of the residential, commercial, you know, all those revenues that come in, we're we're hitting right around 30 to 36%, so the revenues are hitting right where we expect them to of at this point in the year. Expenses, the re-

Staff Member

reason the expenses are so much higher, again, that's front-loading. We've got insurance contracts that we pay for that are rather expensive. And, again, we do transfers from the electric fund to help fund the general fund. So, the revenues you're seeing in the general fund, a portion of that is coming from electric. Again, electric CIP, basically $827,000. Again, that is all for the Garrison Substation Project. I'm not quite sure where they are in completion completing that, but I believe it should be done by the end of this fiscal year. If you have any questions, I would be glad to take those.

Council Member

Uh questions. Unfortunately, the people that most uh asked for this uh review, it's unfortunate that it was just uh scheduling. Um uh questions uh Mr. Mayor?

Robin R. Christiansen

I'll yield to any member of your committee first.

Council Member

Uh, please go ahead, Mr. Mayor.

Robin R. Christiansen

Thank you. Um, we had budgeted $400,000 for legal expenses.

Staff Member

Correct.

Robin R. Christiansen

Is there any particular Is there any particular ongoing litigation uh that that really has a large bill or or is it inappropriate for me to talk about?

Staff Member

I don't know if it is or not. It's uh

Robin R. Christiansen

Put Mr. Hugg on the hot seat.

Robin R. Christiansen

Can you share with us that information or is that classified?

Dave Hugg

He answer Part of the answer to your question is, yes, there's one relatively large matter that this the city is involved in. Uh because it's in litigation and because we're hopefully going to have a settlement one of these days soon, I can't really describe who that is or or what that is. It's um

Robin R. Christiansen

Well, I don't want you to do so, but uh just for for my edification and the edification of the body politic that's gathered here, to date, how much have we spent on that particular litigation?

Dave Hugg

I would say probably half of the money that we've spent so far has been in that litigation.

Robin R. Christiansen

So, we allotted $400,000, and we're close to $200,000 for that particular litigation?

Dave Hugg

I would yeah, just rough rough guess. Uh we're somewhere in that neighborhood. We I signed a reimbursement today for $98,000 for the firm that's handling that.

Robin R. Christiansen

That was a bill?

Dave Hugg

That was a bill. That was the uh There is There is a possibility that there will be some recovery uh of some of those funds, and there will be some portion of it that is covered by our uh our insurance policy. Uh we have what, a 25 or 50, do you remember, the the uh that what we have to cover?

Staff Member

Uh well, we we have a $25,000 deductible.

Dave Hugg

Right, okay. So, we uh so, we won't After the first 25,000, there is some portion of that claim that the insurance company will cover. Um and then we may have to uh go go additional litigation to try and recover some of the expenses that are attributable to a third-party.

Robin R. Christiansen

So, I want everybody to remember and bear

Robin R. Christiansen

bring that figure into your mind. Could you give us that figure again? It's almost half of what we allotted for legal expenses.

City Solicitor

Probably it's probably pretty close to half. Like I said, it was on- almost $100,000.

Robin R. Christiansen

Thank you for your candor. Mr. Chairman, I yield. Thank you.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Uh, thank you, Mr. Mayor. I... Um, well okay, uh Councilwoman Arndt?

Tricia K. Arndt

Just a quick follow up, um without giving, I mean, not asking for a ton of detail, but is that matter related to a zoning issue or a personnel issue?

City Solicitor

That that matter is related to initially an appeal by uh an applicant to the Board of Adjustment.

Tricia K. Arndt

Thank you very much. I yield.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Thank you. And uh, other questions? All right.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Well, I do have a few questions. Um, I want to thank you for the uh, the presentation. I think it's very helpful. Um, Mr. Dil... if you like to come forward, and of course Mr. Hugg, anytime you want to chime in, you you're more than welcome to. Um, the... we're looking that so right now, things are as expected pretty much except for uh, a couple of sources of revenue that that are were unexpected. Is that a fair statement?

City Staff

Um, yeah, I mean we're we're kind of on course for what we planned for FY24. There's a couple small things that um were unexpected. Um and then again we've uh as far as wastewater, that was we're we're not hitting the mark there and that was kind of unexpected, but we need to look a little bit further into that.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

And will will have that information um by next uh month?

City Staff

Sure. I mean, and any other questions you have, uh anytime, you know, you can reach out, you know, if there's any questions after tonight, feel free.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Ms. Marney have an answer to something too so uh I'll if it's okay I'll Good, you almost scared me there. I was thinking we we might end up with a repair bill.

Patricia Marney

Patricia Marney, Controller/Treasurer. Have a little bit of an answer. It's not so much a refund. Uh it looks like there were some billing adjustments being handled by the um customer service billing department for high water bills uh and that could be a a number of issues that we are researching and looking into to find what the root cause is behind those adjustments uh that obviously are impacting the revenues.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

And then uh um is to still Mr. Hugg, um will will that impact any of the projects that need to be accomplished? Will anything have to be deferred or are there any issues that this that that revenue will cause in that department?

City Staff

It's it's way too early to to to say, you know, that we would have to do anything like that.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Great, thank you. Uh, I the next uh, question I had was um we...

David L. Anderson

We we have a uh state grant that's goes to the university um um the university um cities basically. Um And and my question on that is uh we need to uh appropriate that money to the fire department and the police department. Um If uh uh has We've been looking for a little clarification in language. Uh has that uh come yet?

Robin R. Christiansen

Sharon, do you want to answer that question?

Sharon Duca

Sure. We actually just talked about this a couple of days ago, didn't we, Dave? Um no, I have not received the official in-writing response from the Controller General's office as of yet. I understand that there was discussion that the the $1.6 million was to be used as an offset to the city's budget, but the specific language within the grant itself specifies for the universities as you're aware. So, uh before we appropriate those funds, uh we would like to get the official opinion from the Controller General's office. Last year, many of you are aware, $500,000 was allocated to the police department and 1.1 million was allocated to the fire department, but there were no stipulations within that those guidelines uh as to what we could or could not spend the money on. Uh there is there have been internal discussions as far as allocating a percentage of the uh grant funds towards like employee expense and overhead expense for number of calls, uh for example, that are done by the police department and the fire department. That's that's one way that seems to be acceptable within the language of uh of the bill or grant uh grant document within itself. Uh then other than that, no, we have not allocated those funds. It is currently sitting in the general fund in a grant revenue line item.

David L. Anderson

That's good, because we need to uh fund the stipend program, and we need to uh and quite frankly uh you know, we we had a a couple more uh shootings that had happened, and I I we really really need to start getting these uh programs into play. I I can't tell you how much I want to see see those particular line items uh come before us as soon as possible. If uh

Sharon Duca

Sure.

David L. Anderson

you all need any help and they we need that uh lobby, Mr. Mayor, uh we need to lobby to get something, a little language adjustment in the mini in the minibus basically that they they have, the mini-bond bill. Um let you know, let's let's do it, but

Sharon Duca

Sure.

David L. Anderson

But, um we we literally have people being shot in the streets, and we have uh, you know, a lot of stress on maintaining fire levels, so that has to be a priority, I think. I want to thank you all for your work that you're doing on it.

Brian E. Lewis

is not did not feel. That's just that. Um, anyway, anyone else? All right.

Robin R. Christiansen

Uh, Mr. Chairman, if I if I could close with just one comment. Um, we are seeing outstanding cooperation among all of our departments in terms of understanding what their budget is, keeping their expenditures as low as possible, but on the other side, timing some of their expenditures so that that we're not faced with the end of the year or or, you know, some unusual circumstance. So I just want to give credit to all of our department heads and all of our departments for the, you know, we came very close uh last year in terms of of how we budgeted and where we ended up. Uh we're on good track this year, so with that, thank you very much.

Brian E. Lewis

Thank you. Thank you very much. Any questions? Uh going once, going twice, going three times. Thank you.

Robin R. Christiansen

Thank you.

Brian E. Lewis

Is there any Is there any other business before the Legislative, Finance, and Administration Committee? Seeing none, we stand adjourned.

Fred A. Neil

Thank you, sir. Do we have any other additional additional business to talk discuss?

Fred A. Neil

Hearing none, this Council meeting of the Whole is adjourned.