Transcript: Council Committee of the Whole Meeting
Tuesday, January 13, 2026
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Showing 422 of 422 statements
Fred A. Neil
meeting of Tuesday, January 13th, 2026. I would like to remind the public that public comments are welcome on any item and will permitted be permitted at the appropriate time. We now have before you the evening's agenda, and I will entertain a motion for its adoption.
Play from 00:00Fred A. Neil
It's been moved and seconded. Any questions? If none, all in favor please say aye.
Play from 00:24Fred A. Neil
Any opposed? Hearing no opposed, it has been moved and seconded and we now have a motion uh saying none all in favor have said have approved. Finding the first on the agenda we have presentations. One is Booted and Suited, Bobby Wilson, CEO and founder, please come forward to the podium.
Play from 00:32Bobby Wilson
Hello, my name is Bobby Wilson and this Miss DeNiera Gibson. She's the spokesperson and the marketing um director for Booted and Suited. Um today I come before you to present a clean up for a safer, greener, and cleaner Downtown Dover. And I'm not here to step on public works toes cuz I know they take care of the clean up in Downtown Dover. All I'm here to do is to enhance their ability to do a greater job in cleaning up Downtown Dover. Um as you know, we have a a lot of problems in Downtown Dover with um homelessness, uh trash, debris, uh people uh defecating on the sidewalks and I mean it's became a bathroom Downtown Dover. And what we're going to present tonight is to clean that up. Uh I'm at 33- 32 West Loockerman Street. Um my office is there and I have used this um Narcan eight times to bring individuals back from death. And it's it's sad, right there on the main drag of Loockerman Street. And uh Downtown Dover Partnership, it's happening right in front of their door. So I'm asking you tonight uh with the budget that we come before uh before you with, if you would please uh consider it. I spoken with the um the manager, the city manager, the assistant city manager in reference to this budget.
Play from 01:09Bobby Wilson
Uh I hope they agree to it, from my understanding they agree to uh the activity that I'm interested in in in um performing Downtown Dover. My my question is is that can that um $50,000 come out of the the the manager's office under discretionary funds opposed to having be going through a grant? This is part part not of a procurement, but something that's added to the expense of Downtown Dover or on the budget in the public works office or the um uh the police department or just from the city manager's office, period. So, uh the city manager told me I need to needed to have a sponsor for the um proposal, and from my understanding, I believe that Mr. a councilman uh Roy Sudler is going to be the sponsor for this type of project to take place. It's his it's in his district, the fourth district, and I will be asking uh Councilman Anderson as well and Councilman Boggerty as well, will they support uh such a uh endeavor. Thank you, and I want to have um Ms. Gibson to give our presentation, please.
Play from 04:08Fred A. Neil
If she wishes to come and make the presentation, she's certainly welcome to do so, but we we're we're anxious to hear the presentation. So, the floor is yours.
Play from 06:54DeNiera Gibson. Um
Excellent. Excellent. Well, first and foremost, thank you, Mr. Wilson. I'm very, very excited um to talk to you all about Booted and Suited Career Academy. Um I'm going to go ahead and read our mission statement, um but before I do that, I do want to go ahead and pass around some materials for reference for everyone. Um these are just some photos and a signed petition for your reference.
Play from 07:01Bobby Wilson
The photos are from um our mentoring program, which is Vision, Downtown Vision in Wilmington, Delaware. Um Mr. Mike from Vision, um he's helping us with this program here in Dover. It's going to be the same type of program, boots on the ground, uh two different shifts, uh clean up Downtown Dover with all this surrounding activities, first First Friday and all the activities to go along with it.
Play from 07:28DeNiera Gibson. Um
All right. Ladies and gentlemen, if you will read along with me. As a longtime resident, advocate, and volunteer of the city of Dover, Delaware, I, Bobby Wilson, CEO and founder of Booted and Suited Career Academy, would like to offer a proposal for a comprehensive community-based program. This program is intended to assist our great capital city, Dover, Delaware, in its growth and continued work towards harmony and cohesion with downtown residents and businesses. The program will focus on three areas of significance in the heart of our city. We'll aim to make downtown safer, cleaner, and greener. As leadership concentrates on advancement, modernization, and becoming more competitive with similar cities, Booted and Suited is prepared to do our part to encourage and strengthen downtown business profits and community engagement. We're eager to provide services to work with the downtown leadership in its efforts and goals for the future. Booted and Suited is determined to add value to Dover, and we look forward to aiding now and into the future.
Play from 08:40DeNiera Gibson. Um
All right. Good evening, everyone, again. Um officially, my name is DeNiera Gibson. Um I am the disabled veterans outreach program specialist with the Delaware Department of Labor, and also the current marketing specialist and uh I guess representative for Suited and Booted. Um Every day I work directly with justice-involved individuals, especially veterans, helping them re-enter the workforce after incarceration, trauma, or long-term unemployment. I'm here tonight to present Booted and Suited Career Academy, a workforce development and community service initiative designed to improve safety, cleanliness, and opportunity in Downtown Dover while creating real jobs for people who want to contribute positive to excuse me, positively to the city.
Play from 10:28DeNiera Gibson. Um
Dover, like many cities, faces a few ongoing challenges downtown. Um we have concerns around safety and visibility, cleanliness, and beautification, and we have a population of residents, especially justice-involved individuals and veterans, who want to work, but struggle to access stable employment. In fact, in Dover over the past year, we've seen documented robberies in central streets like Loockerman and New Street, a robbery involving a food delivery driver in early January, and multiple shootings that injured residents. So for your reference, I just want to run through um some specifics on some of those incidents. So there was a robbery on West Loockerman Street in August 2025. A suspect was arrested after approaching a victim in the 100 block of West Loockerman Street and stealing property following an assault. There was an armed robbery in downtown area, September 2025. Police investigated an armed robbery where two suspects on electric scooters approached a victim in a vehicle and demanded property at gunpoint on the 400 block of North New Street. Robbery of food delivery driver in January 2026, four suspects robbed a food delivery driver at the 800 block of Carvel Drive, stealing items after brandishing a firearm. There are also shootings and violent crimes. Shooting incident with injury in June of 2025, a shooting in Dover left a 22-year-old dead and several others wounded with multiple victims suffering gunshot injuries during an exchange of gunfire. Shots fired near downtown in summer of 2025, police reported a shooting near Minor Street Alley where a 42-year-old woman was shot multiple times, suspect remains at large. Ongoing trend of elevated serious crime. In 2025, a 2000 excuse me, a 2025 city report noted increases in homicides, shoplifting, and overdoses, to Mr. Wilson's point, and despite quality of life efforts with shootings and violent crime remaining concerning trends in Dover. These are not isolated arrests from years ago or distant statistics. They're from the past few months or weeks. These are incidents that affect safety perceptions in everyday life in Downtown Dover. I want to make it very clear that when people return to the community without structure, opportunity, or purpose, the outcomes are very predictable: recidivism, unemployment, and continued strain on city resources. Booted and Suited addresses all of these issues at once, not through punishment, but through training, accountability, and service. Our program creates structured, trained ambassadors who can increase positive visibility, deter opportunistic crime, and strengthen connections between communities and first responders.
Play from 11:54Presenter Female
Funding Booted and Suited Career Academy's workforce development program is a return on investment, not just a program expense. Dover has an opportunity now to be proactive, rather than reactive. Booted and Suited allows the city to address safety and cleanliness, strengthen workforce pipelines, and demonstrate leadership in re-entry solutions. This program aligns directly with public safety goals, workforce development priorities, and also community revitalization efforts. Funding this initiative is an investment in people, prevention, and pride in Dover.
Play from 15:04Presenter Female
In closing, Booted and Suited Career Academy brought to you by myself and also CEO and founder, Bobby Wilson, is about accountability, opportunity, and service. The program provides Dover with trained, uniformed ambassadors who want to work, they want to serve, and they want to give back. Booted and Suited Career Academy is poised to help facilitate a safer, cleaner, greener downtown Dover. I appreciate your time and consideration. My cohort is here to answer any follow-up questions.
Play from 15:37Julia M. Pillsbury
Thank you very much. The presentation was very interesting. I have some questions, um, primarily about the salaries. I've had grants in the past and the, as the proposer of the grant, there was no salary allocated. So I'd like to know what hours the managers are going to work and what is the CEO going to be contributing and how many hours are you going to be contributing as well?
Play from 16:19Bobby Wilson
Okay. We're going to be having two shifts, and it's going to be a morning shift and an evening shift, and it will consist of two two managers and and myself overseeing the project. Um, a lot we have a lot of volunteers would be from parole and probation and from the court system as well. Um, and they will be, you know, in they're doing their community service uh on the project. Uh, I have give you the budget, and in the budget I had, I think I had uh a couple spaces for the people that's going to be working, I know, um, which is the the $500 a week for the two managers, and uh $1,000 a week for myself overlooking the program.
Play from 16:57Bobby Wilson
Uh, I will be working around the clock. As long as my guys are on the boots on the ground, I will be working.
Play from 18:00Bobby Wilson
With with my other staff members, ma'am. With my other staff members, um with my secretary, uh with my other staff members. That would be that $1,000 a week would be broken down with their support as well.
Play from 18:18Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.
Thank you, uh Council President. Um, Mr. Wilson, I uh, I just wanted to get some clarity on or you know, figure out what what exactly Booted and Suited is doing in reference to the uh Downtown Vision like up in Wilmington, correct? So is this program going to be part of the workforce development for Booted and Suited?
Play from 18:42Bobby Wilson
Yes, it'll be part of the workforce development. It is part of the program uh with training the folks that's on the ground that's doing the cleaning up and moving them to a higher ground. Possibly the union. I just met with the labor union. I'm meeting with the Bricklayers Union. So, I'm surrounding the program with all these unions. So, therefore, it'd be a outlet for the individuals. One thing, I've
Play from 19:12Bobby Wilson
we got 148 men and women a job in two years uh at Reverend Keeley's on East Side. Um, so the thing is what my what the employers are saying is that they can train, but the problem is the attitude, the soft skills. And that's where we come in great is the soft skills because we have a relationship. I'm I'm an ex-con. I'm came from prison myself. And so, you know, a lot of guys that get out of prison to go to Polytech is you know, inferiority to them, you know? Because they're going around people they don't know. So they feel some kind of way. When I was in prison, I was driving um to the bus station or to the airport, and guys was uh worried about getting out of the cars to go in, cuz everybody looking at them, and this and that. So how can they stand sit in the classroom with people they don't know? So that's where we come in at. We come in to build a relationship with the guys coming out of prison, men and women, so they can adapt back into the community. And without that, we don't have that here in Dover. This state is so top-heavy. Everything is in New Castle. And we have to create some type of opportunity for re-entry.
Play from 19:45Bobby Wilson
I'm at the re-entry in DC. We have 41 beds in DC that we are housing people. And in Baltimore, I mean, people leaving from Wilmington going to Baltimore, 80 people, just to get in beds because there's nothing here in the state. So until the state come around and and start uh really making this a number one focus in reference to housing individual, I mean, in the rooming housing. I have to go to Smyrna. Guys are walking, to pick them up, to bring them to Dover, to house them. I mean, it's a serious, serious problem. And another thing, too, we have a very influx of people coming in here from Kensington. It's bad, okay? Now the the the city of of Philadelphia, mayor, she doing a great job, I think, with cleaning up Kensington. And now the Kensington Kensington uh residents, they're looking at Dover as being the place to to be homeless at.
Play from 21:15Bobby Wilson
You know what I'm saying? So it it's sad. And um, with boots on the ground, I'm downtown Dover. If you go to any open area downtown Dover where a store is not being operated, there's a bedroom there, okay? And it's sad. So my thing is, I'm from Dover. Uh, I've been doing this workforce development ever since the '80s with Janay, Jimmy White, Janay barbershop, with um, with A lot of these guys in the barbershop came through me, through Fresh Look. And so, I brought them off the street. Some was in college at Del State University and got their uh uh bachelor's degree through my uh business, Fresh Look Barbershop and also Fresh Look Cleaning Service.
Play from 22:32Bobby Wilson
So, I've been doing this for years, but what happened is I went to Wilmington and worked for Reverend Keeley and learned about workforce development, okay, and how it works in order to bring it to Dover because like I said, I was doing it in a you know, like on a business side, but now I say I wanted to create it on a non-profit arena so I can help my people in Dover, Delaware. These guys, we had guys traveling from uh Sussex County and Dover taking one and two buses to get to Wilmington to the program so that they can graduate because they did not want to go to Polytech. Now Polytech is a good program, but there's need to be something opposite of Polytech so when people come out for re-entry, they can engage into. And please, Dover, Delaware, this could be the start.
Play from 23:15Bobby Wilson
Um, Rob Buccini is the builder in Wilmington, the big developer in Wilmington. So, Wilmington could not be Wilmington without development and cleaning up at the same time. You can't do one without the other. Okay? You develop and have a uh uh crime-infested, unclean city, it's not going to work. It has to work together, hand-in-hand, and that's the success of the city of Wilmington. Rob Buccini, BPG, and the city of Wilmington working uh hand-in-hand, cuz I used to work for Rob Buccini. I I have witnesses I witnessed the come-up of Wilmington through working together with a developer and also the city. Now EDIS is on the project here in Dover. So we need to have EDI EDIS to engage in the cleanup as well as them in the development that they're getting paid for, okay?
Play from 24:23Bobby Wilson
It's it's so sad to see people come before this city like last night and and just like you're going to hear Mr. um Mr. Kevin here speak about taking millions of dollars out of this city and going across the bridge to Wilmington. You have uh a project, $2 million that that you just voted on last night. Okay, that project, how many local uh employees that's going to be working on that project? How many local subcontractors
Play from 25:16Bobby Wilson
Okay, I'm sorry. Yeah. But this all goes back to workforce development. So, thank you for your time.
Play from 25:50Bobby Wilson
I wish you would fund the program. I'm going to make make it my purpose to make it successful. Thank you.
Play from 25:56Tricia K. Arndt
Just a couple quick questions. I love the concept, workforce development, cleaning up the community. Is this, I assume it's a long-term endeavor, but I'm looking at your your budget. It's only for 4 months with with the 50,000 that you're asking, that would get you through 4 months. What is the plan for after that? Are you a 501(c)(3)? Are you seeking other funding sources? What what's your long-term plan?
Play from 26:11Bobby Wilson
We're seeking other funding sources. This can be the beginning to show other funding sources the success of it. My goal is to build off of off the success of the program to increase funding. I have a grant writer, a successful grant writer that writes the grants for the program in Wilmington that have acquired millions of dollars in grants for the program. So, that grant writer has um
Play from 26:44Bobby Wilson
Councilman Anderson have uh spoken with the grant writer. I think uh Councilman um uh uh Rocha has spoken with the um grant writer. So, our and also I spoke with um M&T Bank and PNC Bank. And well, M&T Bank, they're interested in and PNC Bank interested in um in this year's budget of getting involved.
Play from 27:16Bobby Wilson
And I spoke with the merchants. See, in Wilmington the merchants was involved also with the funding of a program of the program. So, that's the way we want to forward the program further.
Play from 27:54Fred A. Neil
Uh let me ask. Any other questions? Let me ask several questions of you. Basically, you're looking to get it established here in Dover. Yes. Would you be able to bring people from elsewhere here on an immediate basis to get started, or would this you have to accumulate additional workers? Uh which the idea, I mean, is great.
Play from 28:07Fred A. Neil
Being able to take someone who's uh going to be coming out of jail, who needs a job, who needs to fit in, understand all of that. But do you have a ready force that can be brought in to to Dover at this time?
Play from 28:36Bobby Wilson
Yes, sir. They calling me, they writing letters to me. Um I have some that I'm training now. Uh we have a Saturday academy at the at the uh facility. We have facilities that we invested in for the community, to serve the community, uh here on Lockerman Street in Dover, and also on South Little Creek Road where we have our training center.
Play from 28:55Fred A. Neil
Economic development is one of our our our goals, and you're going to hear people here asking for money. There's no more important program that you described, and I say described because it isn't in effect now. If it was in effect now, basically, then it becomes a lot easier to be able to loosen up our economic development money for this purpose. Because it's now, it's cleanup, it's something we desperately need, uh not to take the place of of our police, not to take the place of of Public Works, but because there is a specific need that is needed now and fits in certainly to the master plan for the redevelopment of the downtown area. Without a question, it's perfect. The The question is the financing, if we had a promise to be able to give you and say, "There's financing if you get certain matches" and the like, because that's what you need. You need that additional push. That I would suggest that going back to make a form- formal application as others have done, to that you'll hear some tonight, uh that uh to make a formal application, and finite make a finite development in terms of what a finance financing that you're going to need as a hook that you may need for other development. And I think that's something that I could support because I think it's needed. I think it does two things: it helps people who need the help coming out of jail, and things get them back into society because they want to get back into society. They're capable of doing so. I think we need that.
Play from 29:19Fred A. Neil
And I think we need that presence downtown showing that there's set eyes on that they really care about what's happening. But I don't know whether the finances work until you make the proposal going to through the the uh uh economic development program going back to uh the city manager with those figures, so that we can take a hard look on it, and use it as a hook to get the other monies because there's a promise that the city's going to put forward with this money. That's my thinking, because we certainly need the program. Anybody else have any questions? Yes.
Play from 30:07Roy Sudler, Jr.
Thank you, Council President, for recognizing me. And I concur with the Council President, uh we do have a form uh which I do believe will be most helpful filling it out as as well as being able to uh justify the the funds as well. Great program, I definitely support the program. I'm looking forward to being able to vote on it uh to support you further. Um so I would strongly recommend that you get an application for uh the economic development uh funds before you leave. I do believe uh most likely the uh city manager or even uh Mr. uh Anderson, could the chair, could probably help you with that as well. But also want to say uh thank you for all your hard work you've done throughout the years. You have been a pillar in the 4th district community, and then downtown Dover. You've given a lot of people an opportunity to be entrepreneurs, uh including myself when I was a barber in in in high school and college. And I wanted to thank you personally, so I want firsthand know um the support you've given our community and also the reach and dedication you have uh to giving back and and helping Dover become greater than it's ever been.
Play from 30:35Roy Sudler, Jr.
And so I want to say thank you personally, and let's get that application filled out so that we can support you in the way that we really would like to. But uh great presentation, and thank you. I yield, thank you Council President for recognizing me.
Play from 31:40Fred A. Neil
Thank you, Councilman. Any other questions at this time? I thank you, Mr. Johnson.
Play from 32:12Rufus Johnson
Oh yeah, I'm encouraged. I'm encouraged, definitely, definitely. I'm going to come back, I'm going to get the application, come back with what you asked for.
Play from 32:19Fred A. Neil
No action is required at this time. So we now have Big Brothers and Big Sisters of Delaware, Councilman Boggerty and Anya Lindsay-Jenkins, the chief executive officer. If you will come down, make your presentation.
Play from 32:27Anya Lindsay-Jenkins
Hi, good evening. My name is Anya Lindsay-Jenkins and I'm the CEO of Big Brothers Big Sisters of Delaware, and I have Dr. Cade with me who is the treasurer of our board.
Play from 32:39Dr. Vilicia Cade
Hi, uh good evening uh to the City Council um members. I come to you tonight as the treasurer of Big Brothers Big Sisters of Delaware. Um and as the former superintendent of Capital School District, I it is truly an honor to come here tonight to talk about programming for our children here in Kent County and the city of Dover. I know that many of you saw the recent newspaper article uh with one of our former students from Dover High School, Jordan Davis and Stephen Pierce, where it's been a second part of a conversation in the newspaper about programming for youth in the city of Dover.
Play from 33:15Dr. Vilicia Cade
Recent conversations reporting that Dover has highlighted the concern that we share that too many of our young people lack safe, positive activities after school and in the evening and during summer months. When youth have nowhere to go and no structured engagement, the risks to their safety and academic success and future increases. That is where Big Brothers Big Sisters of Delaware plays a critical role. At its core, mentorship provides more than supervision. It provides connection, consistency, and hope. A caring and trusted adult gives young people someone to talk to, someone to model positive decision making, someone who believes in their potential. The impact is proven.
Play from 33:40Dr. Vilicia Cade
Youth with mentors are 55% more likely to enroll in college, 46% less likely to begin using drugs, and 52% less likely to skip school. These outcomes matter deeply for students in Capital School District and in Caesar Rodney School District, where schools work every day to keep students engaged, supported, and on track. Mentorship is also a smart public safety strategy. Young people who are mentored are significantly less likely to engage in risky or delinquent behavior and more likely to become productive, employed, and civically engaged adults. In other words, mentorship helps prevent problems before they start.
Play from 34:33Dr. Vilicia Cade
So by investing in mentorship and safe and structured spaces for youth, Dover is not only supporting children today, we're strengthening families, we're supporting schools, and we're building safer and more prosperous communities for our future. Big Brothers Big Sisters of Delaware stands ready to partner with the city of Dover to ensure our youth and young people have somewhere to go, something to do, and some way to engage. So I'm asking as a board member, as you consider your budget in the future, I encourage you to set aside funds to help with the Youth Enrichment Center that you're going to hear about this evening. And you will hear more about that programming from our CEO, and in advance, I just want to thank each of you for your leadership and for your commitment to the Dover youth. Thank you.
Play from 35:26Anya Lindsay-Jenkins
Um good evening again. Um can we change the slide? Okay. A little bit about Big Brothers Big Sisters of Delaware. We've been around since 1964, so we are the first and oldest mentoring organization in the state of Delaware. We service over 2,000 kids statewide um in a in various programs, including one-to-one mentorship, group mentorship, workforce and career readiness training, athlete mentorship, mentorship leading young people to play sports and and receive scholarship to college. Um so those are some of the programs that we currently run. Um we are engaging Delaware's youth on the daily basis. So the Youth Enrichment Center, which is located at 3156 Forest Avenue, um will start construction this month.
Play from 36:27Anya Lindsay-Jenkins
Uh the project is about 2 years in the making. We obtained the building 2 years ago. Um if anyone is familiar, it's the old vets center off of Forest Avenue. Uh it's about 1.72 acres of land. We wanted to have a a play space for young people there. Um we have two phases of this particular building. The first phase, which will be the Big B, is our uh multimedia hub. So we want to have the young people have the opportunity to have somewhere to feel safe and explore their interest. And in that media hub will be a esports gaming center for young people. It will be a podcasting studio. There will be a regular recording studio as well. So this will give the young people the opportunity to create, giving them the opportunity to to do something that they're they enjoy um and stay safe. In that phase two, our larger building, there will be a teaching kitchen, a community garden, there will be a a college readiness lab, a tutoring lab, and another computer lab.
Play from 37:24Anya Lindsay-Jenkins
Our goal is to service the the youth of Delaware in Kent County in a way that we are helping them move forward, creating plans for college, SAT prep, camp, camp during the days when they're off but the parents not. So, um this project is near and dear to us, and we have been working with the Dover Youth Committee as well to explore the needs of the young people, along with Capital School District um and directly with the youth as well. And that's how this project actually came into fruition.
Play from 38:30Anya Lindsay-Jenkins
Yes, we're we're 80% funded right now, and that came from the support of Senator Carper when he was in office, and Senator Coons, as well as uh Senator William Bush. So we're about 80% from our goal. Um again, this project has been in works for about 2 years now. So um we will be breaking ground sometime this month, and the first phase is due to be completed um by the summer, with the second phase at the end of the year.
Play from 39:23Anya Lindsay-Jenkins
Can we uh slide again? There's an outdoor playscape area, which will have a multifunctional court for volleyball, pickleball, basketball, a playground area for camp, and with pavilions as well.
Play from 39:41Anya Lindsay-Jenkins
Can you um I think you that that is you can hit play on that, I believe. You can click on it and it should move. Maybe it won't.
Play from 40:16Anya Lindsay-Jenkins
More information can be found in your packet as well, so yes. Yes. Okay.
Play from 40:29Andre M. Boggerty
Uh thank you. Um I want to thank you um with the follow-up of our previous conversations and finally being able to get our schedules to connect. Um this is a program that I stand behind. I'm grateful um as I committed myself to get back to some of the things I love to do and that is working with youth, working with individuals and organizations who who have um have a history of performing. One of the things that I'm excited about is the location is closer. So that accessibility to to some of our um kids are for some of our kids and participants are closer than the and and it's neutral and you know, many of us know that being location is important based on, you know, some of the things we experience. And we all know that um that things like AI and is is emerging. So it's forward-thinking.
Play from 40:38Andre M. Boggerty
Um it's meeting individuals where where I'm at. I am where they at. I am I am now a parent of a gamer, which is absolutely a different world for me, having raised athletes. So um I've learned to appreciate, although not quite understanding, the the gamer life. So to to have that in a safe place, um then obviously the um multimedia rooms. I'm excited that there's a combination of both. Um I have personally, my wife and myself, have have personally committed to providing financial support out of our of our own. I will ask that um um I will ask my colleagues who, you know, we really, really we we often say our children and our young people don't have anything to do. This is just an earshot away from Dover High. So so that also helps.
Play from 41:36Andre M. Boggerty
And then the year-round participant uh participation in the varied activities. I I I won't ask you all to do anything personally, but let's please consider getting behind um Big Brothers and Big Sisters of Delaware. Again, they've already they've already have a lot of funding. I know there may be some nuances we may need to visit um as far as location, etc. But um but however we can make this happen, I'm excited about what you're doing, and you have my unwavering commitment as a councilman and as Andre. I yield.
Play from 42:32David L. Anderson
Thank you, Mr. President. Uh uh thank you for coming here tonight and and thank you for bringing this to us. Um My first of all, I want to thank you for uh being willing to put a substantial investment in the city of Dover. Since the Boys and Girls Club has moved out of three all three of its Dover locations, there's been a major lack of service. Uh that even though other organizations uh have been stepping up in the last uh few years, it it still hasn't uh closed that gap uh totally. Um and so uh and I'm glad that now we have more diversity of organizations so that we're not dependent on one anymore. And that's positive. And I want to thank you for being part of that. Is um
Play from 43:20David L. Anderson
my first question has to do with transportation. Are are you working with Capital School District with transportation and and what other transport- tation uh way ways to overcome the the transportation barrier uh for young people are there?
Play from 44:20Anya Lindsay-Jenkins
It is our plan to continue to work with Capital School District, but it is also our plan to have our own uh vehicle for transportation for young people where we are able to make sure that they get home safely at night. In the evening, I'm sorry, no night.
Play from 44:32David L. Anderson
Thank you. That's Another question has to do with uh have you considered the possibility of uh conduit
Play from 44:41David L. Anderson
bonds with uh like with the city or other sources to um to maybe uh finance that last 20%?
Play from 45:11Dr. Vilicia Cade
Securing bonds? No, the um the board and um we haven't had any discussions uh regarding uh bond uh securing bonds for financing at this point. Um right—
Play from 45:24Anya Lindsey-Jenkins
We we have not. A lot of the the the work that we put into gaining finance has been grassroots, working with um you know senators and and community members and, you know, just getting out there and and showing them this and and and our vision and, you know, getting people behind us. But we're definitely open to consideration.
Play from 45:38David L. Anderson
Thank you. Just, maybe we won't need it. I mean, to me, if you can do it debt-free, do it debt-free. Um but if you uh, you know, you're you're almost there if you need to, you know, complete something uh, conduit bonds, uh the city and county both have programs. Um maybe something to investigate, as well. Um, I'm going to well, I'm just going to say thank you for sake of time. I'm just going to yield, Mr. President.
Play from 45:59Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.
Uh thank you, Mr. President, for recognizing me. Great presentation. Um it sounds like and looks like it's going to be a definite bonus for us, and and uh I know that there's there may be some hurdles. But I think uh, you know, Andre, if you want, you know, I'll I'll participate with you to help get over those hurdles. And I'm sure Councilman Anderson with the conduit bonds, even though he brought it up, he's somebody you could talk to to figure out how to do it. And um, but my my question is as far—it looks like I can answer the question, but I just want to make sure that the age groups that you're targeting for for this for this project.
Play from 47:15Anya Lindsey-Jenkins
Big Brothers Big Sisters of Delaware, we service from 8 to 18. So while what that's a that's a large range, but they would never they would never intertwine, if that makes sense.
Play from 47:48Anya Lindsey-Jenkins
Um and that that particular media hub will be geared towards the older students or the older young people.
Play from 48:00Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.
And will the mentorship for the older ones, cuz I know when I was a mentor with Big Brothers Big Sisters, I my student aged out at like eighth grade going into high school. Yeah, this was a few years ago, I don't want to date myself, but [laughter] but I couldn't follow that person. [laughter] Yeah, I got this gray hair right here. But um, yeah, so they, you know, they didn't have a high school program at that time. So you're saying that now you do?
Play from 48:08Anya Lindsey-Jenkins
We've had a high school a consistent high school uh program for—
Play from 48:35Anya Lindsey-Jenkins
For for 5 years now. Well, we've always we've always um had serviced older uh students. It's harder to get mentors from time for the older kids, so we started in about 5 years ago doing more group mentoring with them. More workforce, um, readiness. We have a program called Beyond School Walls that's very successful that we've been running in Howard High School now um for about 4 years. And we graduated about 17 kids to college last year, which was our first initial year of having them for 4 years. So our goal is to bring that to Dover, as well. That Beyond School Walls program brings in um local community members that have businesses and, you know, they get to tell their story, because we know that um getting through college or finding a career is not black and white, right? It can It can have many roads. So it's good for young people to know the options in front of them. So that is one of our most successful programs right now, and it is a group mentoring, workforce readiness and career training program. Um it's been very successful. We've had partners at for JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, um local businesses throughout the Wilmington area. So we're hoping to do that here as well. Uh we chose Kent County for our hub because we felt like it was the middle of the state, and you know, we had young people here. We heard their cry. They wanted something to do, right? So we that will be our home base as well. We'll be in and and you can have your mentoring near it, too. We want to have activities for Bigs and Littles as well. So that site will be the home for that. We have a cooking class. You can take your mentee and you go to cooking class with them. So that's the goal is to have a hub where they can connect and feel safe.
Play from 48:40Fred A. Neil
Any other questions? Then I have some. Um one, I couldn't agree with you more. I think basically to be able to get young minds to be able to reach out and touch different things in their lives and get them excited about it. The biggest problem, I think, is what Councilman Anderson has already uh talked about, is transportation. We have families who come here on open forum saying, 'My kids What are you doing for my kids? What are you doing for my kids?' The facilities are there. Getting them there to be able to participate is the biggest problem we have, whether it's in the Fourth District, or in the Third District, or any district. This is the problem when you have mothers or fathers who either are otherwise engaged, do not have the time, do not have the chance to get the kids there. If we got to get the kids there, and we got to get them back safe. That is the biggest problem that we have. And unfortunately, the City Charter does not provide for this. It's not in the charter. We do have our parks and recreation, but we still have the problem: how do we get those kids where they need to be? And so that's something that we have to figure out, because that's where our problem lies. And we wish you the best, and thank you for what you're doing. Are there any other questions? Thank you for your presentation. Yes.
Play from 50:13Dr. Vilicia Cade
Can I just can I just uh thank um Miss Anya um Lindsey-Jenkins, who really sought me out when I was serving as superintendent of Capital School District, and I really tried not to join another board, [laughter] but as a former Little, [laughter] yeah, as a former Little, uh and I did have a Big Sister, I felt it was um my responsibility. And although I'm still not serving in the Capital School District, as a citizen of this county, I know how very important this service is going to be for our young people, and so I continue to serve on the board. But I just want to thank you, Miss Anya Lindsey-Jenkins, for everything that you do for our youth across the state of Delaware. So thank you.
Play from 51:26Andre M. Boggerty
Thank you all. I'll be following up and we'll make sense via email. Thank you.
Play from 52:31Fred A. Neil
Thank you. Next on the agenda we have council reports, and we'll start with—
Play from 52:40Fred A. Neil
Sorry about One more, Network Connect. Sorry about that Councilman Boggerty. Uh and Cierra Hall-Hipkins, the executive director.
Play from 52:47Nathan McAlister
Good evening, council. I am Nathan McAlister. I serve as the program development manager at Network Connect, where our mission is to create community change through collective impact. So I would like to thank you um for giving us the opportunity to present before you tonight. I have some literature that I'm going to share with you and hand it out to you all so you can take a deeper dive look, and Cierra Hall-Hipkins is going to present on some of our programming. So thank you.
Play from 53:02the founder and executive
Thank you, Mr. McAlister. Good evening. So, I'm going to dive right in and um talk to you a little bit about Network Connect. We're a statewide serving agency. I am the founder and executive director for Network Connect. We started our work in 2019 by being the network connecting communities to needed resources. And so if you go to the next slide, we'll talk a little bit about what those resources are and what are the programs. Under our umbrella, we have a total of seven programs. Nathan is passing out our year-in-review as well as a program overview um for our evidence-based programming. So our RACE to Wellness program started in 2019, as well. It's actually born from the brains of teenagers in this in the New Castle County area, where we started distributing mental health uh awareness kits. So that's what you see in the video and in the picture there. Um those kits help young people create a safe space no matter where they are. The CDC sends us pamphlets um that we put in the kit to educate family and young people around adverse childhood experiences, as well as we partner with local artists and therapists to put information in the kits to provide to the young people. The kit has all tangible coping mechanisms, so journals, um a journal prompts, um stress balls, jump ropes, different things depending on the season, to help young people see that you can combat ACEs by building skill, but also doing fun activities um to help with trauma. Next slide, please.
Play from 53:26the founder and executive
The RACE program operates in both New Castle County and Dover. Um we also go into elementary schools, South Dover Elementary and formerly East Dover, um to to bring healing activities to those young people, and they all receive RACE kits um after their training. Um they spend about 8 weeks with our facilitators, and then they graduate into um another part of the work within the school. Currently right now, our Future Culture Creators program is also a statewide program where we serve young people, high school students, ages 14 to 18. They are paid to come and learn workforce development skills. The hard skill for them is civic engagement. So they spend time at um Dover's um Leg Hall, um policy advocating, and they also put on a town hall themselves, youth-led and youth-run, using the IDEATE process. Um we've graduated over 150 young people from this program. They're actually in our office tonight um at 20 East Division Street. Um they're getting ready to leave at 7:00, so they're on the clock working. They the Dover uh cohort will host a town hall on February 3rd, thank you, um from 5:00 to 7:30 um at the 20 East Division Street location. We welcome anyone to come out and be a part to see what these young people have built themselves from start to finish. The unique part of this program is these young people are with us, they're paid to do that civic engagement, but they're also learning how to resume write, how to use the IDEATE process, um interview skills, and when they're finished with us, we place them in employment across the state, and then we follow them for an additional 90 days to make sure that employment sticks, and they have mentorship as they're transitioning into workforce. Next slide, please.
Play from 55:03the founder and executive
Our Community Wellbeing Ambassador program is one of our largest. Network Connect is a team of 57 throughout the state. We serve all three counties. We have uh hubs in New Castle, Kent, and Sussex County. Our hope is that we will make Kent County our headquartering hub. Right now, New Castle County operates as such. So we are starting a capital campaign to bring our work um our headquarters here to Dover. The Community Wellbeing Ambassadors in Kent County are is a program that's funded through Department of um Substance Abuse and Mental Health. All of our ambassadors are trained, certified community health workers. What make What makes them different from community health workers is they focus on behavioral health. So they are uh presenting, in the packet you have, you see a flyer for Skills for Psychological Recovery. It's an evidence-based um model where our ambassadors are going out into community, teaching that skill one-on-one in homes, in coffee shops, on the corner, wherever we find our community member, which identifies their pressing need, helping them to stay into recovery or to initiate recovery or mental health services. Um just a little bit of numbers, uh I told you about Future Culture Creators. For 2024, this op program has operated since 2022, we have several host site partners like the uh DSU, People's uh Community People's Church, different places, uh Food Bank of Delaware throughout the state. Um we this program has already served in the year 2024 508 548 individuals, meaning ambassadors hold a caseload for at least 90 days connecting people to the Skills for Psychological Recovery as well as uh connecting them to a pressing need. A total number of interactions throughout our last year in 2024, we served over over We had over 958 interactions with individuals. We've distributed 600 Narcan kits in Kent County itself, and we've trained over 403 individuals in Narcan distribution. We've also saved, in the last 90 days, we've uh initiated 75 reversals in Kent County alone and trained um barbershops, churches, farmers market, food banks, any partner that we can get our hands on in Narcan um distribution and and and asking them to hold Narcan on site. We also um in this program have uh not only partnership with the host sites, we have community partners like the DMV, um uh upstate different ShopRites and um uh Food Lions, so that we can connect with people as they're in their everyday walks of life to help initiate those Skills for Psychological Recovery trainings. Each ambassador, again, is trained um as a community health worker, certified through our state CHW programming, and they are also trained in um trauma-informed care, which we like to call trauma resiliency, as well as a number—
Play from 57:03Presenter
of other professional development. Each week we spend a day in some sort of professional development before dispatching them out into the community. Next slide, please.
Play from 1:00:15Presenter
Our Dual School program is a program that we acquired in 2023. Dual School practices the ideate process. This is for our older young people, so you can be between 16 and 24. If you're familiar with the ideate process, it teaches you a six-step process of how to build a business or build some sort of initiative. Lots of our young people start businesses from this cohort. They are also paid. They come in with their idea, and they work individually with a facilitator to stand up their idea for future work. This program has served 98 students throughout the state.
Play from 1:00:27Presenter
Our Wilmington Street Team is in partnership with the city of Wilmington. Everything we do is collective impact, so there are multiple partners. In the Wilmington Street Team, we are partnered with Center for Structural Equity and myself, as well as the city of Wilmington, where we are trained. So we have 10 individuals who are trained in high-risk interventionists, community public safety professionals. I myself are also trained in CPSI. We are dispatched into northeast and east Wilmington neighborhoods where we respond to violent events and advocate for both the victim and the perp to stop any retaliation once an event has happened. We also have hub houses in each part of the city where people can come and connect with food resources, victim services, counseling. We have a PCP on-site once a month, a dentist on-site once a month, and several other services that operate out of that out of those two hub houses. Our goal, and the reason why I'm speaking to you about this tonight, is that we would like to bring a program similar to this to Dover, based on your current stats and what you've been experiencing in our state.
Play from 1:01:09Presenter
And because we already have trained individuals who are actually working in the Kent County area, it only makes sense for Dover City Council to support bringing this work in. We serve from cradle to cane in this program, meaning some of our perpetrators or our victims might be young people, and we do not turn them away. The ambassadors—I'm sorry, the high-risk interventionists also keep a caseload, especially of violence intervention situations where we have people who have been hurt, we will follow them for an additional 90 days to make sure they're connected to the needed services. We have an emergency fund attached to this, and we put we host community engagement events on a monthly basis. In this program, we've already served 500 people in those two areas, and we've seen crime decrease in both of the areas that we are serving by more than 10%.
Play from 1:02:57Presenter
Our Recovery Cafe is housed right here in Kent County, 20 East Division Street. We are a part of the Recovery Cafe Network, so we are supported by the national agency. Our Recovery Cafe is open on the weekends and on Thursdays and Fridays. People who are in their recovery can come in, have a cup of coffee, have cake or any food item that we have, but they we're hosting regular meetings. So NA and AA, as well as circles. Circles are therapeutic, evidence-based circles bought in by the cafe network. Currently, there are over 22 cafe members, and we're looking to grow that number. And that's another reason why we're here tonight telling you about that work.
Play from 1:05:16Presenter
So I would encourage you guys to visit our website and take a look at all of the things we have. One thing that I didn't mention because it's not on the slide is our Bridge program, so we've been helping people sign up for affordable college throughout the state of Delaware with connection to Indiana Wesleyan University, and I'll take any questions you have.
Play from 1:06:07Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.
Yeah, quick question. Thank you, Council President. Great presentation. One of one of the programs in here that that I connected with is is the RACE program. Cuz when I was growing up, RACE was a big deal in my community. But one of the things that I participated was in was the Summer Olympics.
Play from 1:07:11Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.
I don't know if they still do that anymore, but that would be nice to bring that. Because that was that it was a competition, but it was also an outside activity and barbecue where the community all came together. And, you know, I'm from Long Island originally, so we competed against other towns on Long Island, and we met in a central location. And Dover is a is a central location to Delaware. I think that would be an awesome opportunity to bring and and also bring the community together, and offer the physical fitness of it and that kind of thing.
Play from 1:07:35Presenter
I 100% agree. We've mirrored that, so I didn't speak about this. We host a RACE camp in Wilmington, where we serve young people who have been affected by trauma. It's free of charge. We find a funder to bring in. And the last summer, we hosted with 50 young people. The summer before that, we hosted with the entire Red Clay School District, which was a feat. But what we what we do is similar, because I, too, was a part I was a volunteer for Special Olympics. So the young people spend their summer learning ACEs, but also recovery not not necessarily substance use, but mental health recovery tools. And then they also—oh, and we and of course, there's an academic piece. We wouldn't be able to—we do reading and Book Nook. We partner with a lot of, like, United Way and the school districts. But the fun part is what you're saying. We host a parent engagement on a monthly basis, and then we have young people come, they compete, the parents sometimes compete, with what we call RACE Days. And we also have each RACE camp at the end of camp, they have an awards ceremony where they're also competing with each other in their different clubs. So very similar to what you're speaking about is embedded in the RACE Camp program. And thank you.
Play from 1:08:51Andre M. Boggerty
Again, I want to thank you. And I'm going to just reiterate, this is this is these are the programs that are doing the work. They have been vetted. They have experience. And and I've some of the individuals that work with Network Connect are actual individuals who are on their second chance.
Play from 1:10:53Andre M. Boggerty
They are a second-chance employee employer. And attending the meetings, they have a passion. They have an investment to to do the right things. And and again, them they being right in Dover and looking to expand, I I'm grateful. They have a summer camp, I believe, as well. We've been able to give some commun- I've been able to get some community funds to. But again, thank you so we can get back to giving our children and our young people things to do. Between yourself, between the Boys & Girls Club, and there's another program who we have present, it's it's you all who are going to continue to make the difference by engaging individuals who are young and in on second chances. Thank you for your success. Thank you for your time. You're a very busy person, so I I thank you. I yield.
Play from 1:11:15Presenter
Thank you for your support, Councilman. It means a lot to us as an agency.
Play from 1:12:46David L. Anderson
Thank you, Mr. President. For sake of time, I'm going to be really quick, and hopefully we'll be able to talk some other time in the near future. But you had me at 10% crime reduction. I yield.
Play from 1:12:54Presenter
I I would say that we don't do it alone. We don't claim that crime reduction only on our own. In partnership with WPD, Center for Structural Equity, GBI—I saw some of their LIT members in here tonight. We collaborate with those people to make sure that we're all working together, victim services. But I will toot the horn and say that my team has been instrumental in being on the ground and available when those violent those violent events happen. So thank you, sir. Thank you for the recognition.
Play from 1:13:56Fred A. Neil
Any additional questions? Seeing none, want to thank you very much for your presentation. We do appreciate you and do appreciate what you're doing. Thank you.
Play from 1:14:25Fred A. Neil
Next on our agenda are council reports from the First District, Dr. Pillsbury.
Play from 1:14:39Julia M. Pillsbury
Thank you. I participated in the city's Christmas activities in December. And I am very limited in getting around because of my inability to drive currently, but I will come to anything that I can arrange. Thank you.
Play from 1:14:48Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.
Yes, sir, thank you. Really, you know, with the holidays and everything, just, you know, venturing out for
Play from 1:15:14David L. Anderson
their community uh transportation funding uh if that railroad kickets, there are uh autistic children and the like who um who will be safer because of that. And and I I definitely want to be thank them for that. Then the uh and also um got to thank the uh Public Works Department uh for their work on some important uh utility work, particularly uh uh urgent uh water and wastewater replacement uh that that has to take place uh uh downtown in the and that's um and I will yield because of uh time. Thank you, Mr. President.
Play from 1:15:19Roy Sudler, Jr.
Thank you, Council President Neil, for recognizing me. Um I received quite a few phone calls in regards to sewer line infrastructure near the Lincoln Park area, particularly near Circle Road. Uh Miss Berry gave me a call stating that she spent between $10 to $12,000 having to replace her sewer line infrastructure and that there seems to be some type of discrepancy in regards to where it hooks up from the city to the private owner and I think about five or six other property owners are going through that. So, we've been trying to help her uh address that and and see where we are and and and get some information, some more information, so we can get that to Public Works to see how we can accommodate her or to see how we can um prevent something in the future from happening like that. Uh also been receiving some phone calls in regards to um crushing concrete or crushing um asphalt in the city of Dover. Um apparently there's been a a rule where you cannot crush concrete in the city of Dover, and individuals or um business owners who were denied opportunity to do so are somewhat upset because to their understanding, someone is crushing um concrete near the I think near the George & Lynch area, um behind I think Sherwin and Williams in that area somewhere. Um so had to take a look at that. That's not my district, but they did uh get me a call and asked me to forward that. I did forward that uh to Code Enforcement, and I do believe they're looking in into that.
Play from 1:15:49Roy Sudler, Jr.
Um also been busy addressing some community members' concerns regarding the Civic Arena and the status of the project and whether or not the we're going to move forward with that. So, I forward that uh information to the Council President as well as the clerks just to give a heads up that we have been receiving uh some phone calls in that regards. Um also I've been working with uh peer-to-peer recovery and treatment organizations who want to assist in cleaning up downtown Dover uh with our community and some of our social problems that plague our community. So, I've been trying to coordinate uh with them as well as the state's Public Safety uh mobile unit department. Uh they also want to coordinate um with us with our outreach initiative uh through the um Opioid Use Disorder Task Force that the Mayor um has put together. And I think lastly, um I think that's just I think that's just about it. So, I yield. Thank you for recognizing me, and I yield.
Play from 1:17:33Andre M. Boggerty
Thank you, um Council President. Um again, as you saw, I spent December, the later part of November, December, and I will continue working with some of these uh touching base with grassroots organizations, such as you saw presented, so I won't re- reinvent the wheel that it um that'll continue to go on. Um met with constituents regarding the panhandling um ordinance and some concepts uh some concepts to consider um moving forward and how we can address that. And also over the holidays, uh you know, fortunately, unfortunately, um assisted constituents with some with some places to stay uh and and also food giveaway. Uh so that said, I'll keep it there. I yield.
Play from 1:18:37Fred A. Neil
Okay. Um in December, I attended the Wreaths Across America event at the Speedway held indoors at Bally's. In January, attended Tracy Harvey's retirement at the Pitts Center. I served as a panelist with uh Chairman Andre Boggerty and Councilman Gerald Rocha at the Property and Construction Appeals. I received a deluge of emails from organization members opposed to the traffic safety ordinance. I responded to many of those with Dover addresses. I had multiple interactions with the group seeking to bring an ice rink and Civic Center to Schutte Park. Uh I informed the off- officials at the Speedway that the MPO turned down a traffic study of Leipsic Road corridor for possible expansion. Uh because the the apartments that are going up called The Edge are going up very rapidly. At the request of the Delaware State News, I provided a tribute to late member of the City Council and past president Bill Hare, and we have uh Mike Finney who did a terrific job on the article of a bio for um uh Councilman Hare because the uh funeral arrangements have not been made, and there'll be a ceremony sometime in the spring according to his daughter. Uh that's my report for uh as for uh uh Council, and now I recognize Councilwoman Trish Arndt to conduct the business of the Parks, Recreation, and Community Enhancement Committee. The floor is yours.
Play from 1:19:31Tricia K. Arndt
Thank you, Council President. The Parks and Rec and Community Enhancement Subcommittee will come to order. You have an agenda before you. Is there a motion?
Play from 1:20:54Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.
Rocha moves to uh adopt the agenda for for Parks and Rec and Community Enhancement Committee.
Play from 1:21:23Tricia K. Arndt
Any opposed? Motion carries. First item on the agenda, we have a review of the active recreation plan for The Enclave Apartments. Uh Ms. Dawn Melson-Williams, our principal planner, will brief the committee on this action item.
Play from 1:21:30Dawn Melson-Williams
All right, good evening. Again, I'm Dawn Melson-Williams, the principal planner with the city's Planning Office. Um we bring to you this evening a um active recreation area plan for review. Uh the project is known as The Enclave Apartments. It's located on Walker Road. Um it's on the north side of Walker Road. Um if you're looking at the image on the screen, on the right-hand side is about where Liberty Court Apartments is. Um on the left-hand side, its neighbor is the Village of McKee Branch. Uh it's a lot that has a very narrow uh frontage on uh Walker Road, but then expands uh behind a series of single-family houses that are that are there. Uh you probably mostly readily recognize in that lower right corner, uh there is a stormwater management facility uh that'll help you locate it if you're driving in that area. Uh this application is a site development plan. It goes to the Planning Commission next Tuesday for their public hearing and review. Um but because it is development of an apartment complex with a total of um 48 uh dwelling units, it is required to go through um review of its active recreation area plan for the for the facility. Uh it may look somewhat familiar, very similar uh development plan for an apartment complex on this property uh was reviewed back in late 2023. Uh however, the developer chose to um revise the the project scenario and um is now going back through the site development review process. Uh so with the active recreation area for this site, uh it qualifies under our small development exemptions, which then sets the active recreation area at a rate of 150 square feet per dwelling unit or a minimum of 10,000 square feet. Um if you do that math, they're they're required to provide the 10,000 square feet. Uh they're providing a number of amenities to to reach that um reach that number and we think they've satisfied it. Um there is a basketball uh half court, a volleyball court, uh there are two uh recreation areas that appear just to be lawn areas, and then there is a clubhouse. Um the clubhouse does have a leasing office, so we're looking um to get confirmation on exactly what the square footage calculation is with the uh clubhouse um to fully confirm that they meet their um requirement. Uh the clubhouse, if you're looking at this um project, is the upper uh left-hand corner. There's the clubhouse, the two game court areas, and one of the open um active recreation areas, which is appears to be just lawn space. Uh you can see the center of the um project includes parking. So there's parking for the two apartment buildings that flank the clubhouse. They're at the top of the screen in the right and on the left of the screen. Uh they have uh bicycle racks. Uh there is a network of sidewalks that uh traverse the site connecting all of these elements um on the property. Our report uh that was provided goes into the details of all of these amenities as well as providing the code citations. Uh planning staff has uh listed a series of our recommendations and comments beginning on page five of that report. We are recommending approval of the um active recreation area amenities um as noted. There are several uh comments or corrections that we want made to the plan, um but those would be deemed fairly minor in nature. Uh there I believe there is a representative of the uh application the project team here in the audience if there are additional questions. Uh but what the Parks, Recreation, Community Enhancement Committee is charged with is uh review and your recommendation of this recreation area um plan for this project. Uh we will report that to the Planning Commission next week. So, I'd be happy to take any questions um regarding their active rec plan.
Play from 1:21:39Tricia K. Arndt
Thank you, Ms. Melson-Williams, and I appreciate the reminder to the committee of what we're tasked with with uh providing our recommendations on. Questions from the committee? Councilman Lewis?
Play from 1:26:22Brian E. Lewis
Thank you, Ms. Arndt. Ms. Williams, um first question I have is, do you know why the developer decided to revise the plans?
Play from 1:26:29Dawn Melson-Williams
Um so the question about if I know why, um it was a couple of years ago and I'm not sure if they were looking to value engineer, um the the plan is similar in number of units, but the layout overall is um is slightly less. They are working with a site that is partially wooded, uh so they have to be careful how much woodland clearing. So, I think it's a it's a balancing act that they're they're choosing to go a different direction in.
Play from 1:26:35Brian E. Lewis
Gotcha. Um and I know this is still going before the Planning Commission, but uh were there any objections by any residents within the vicinity over there to this project to your knowledge?
Play from 1:26:53Dawn Melson-Williams
Um so this project will be subject to a public hearing before the Planning Commission on Tuesday evening. Um at this point, we have not received any written correspondence. Uh with a public hearing before Planning Commission, uh the applicant has to provide public notice in the way of a physical posting on the site, there's a bright yellow sign, a legal ad in the local newspaper, and then mailed notice to property owners within 200 ft. Um so at this point, their notice has been completed. We'll see if there's any objection during a public hearing on Tuesday.
Play from 1:27:23Brian E. Lewis
Understood. Uh at this time, I have no further questions. Thank you, Ms. Williams.
Play from 1:27:46Roy Sudler, Jr.
Thank you uh Chairwoman Arndt for recognizing me. In regards to um the notice, are the mailers, are they sent certified where they have to receive um written confirmation or signature to to verify that the individual or the address that they sent it to is the correct address and that that individual received it? Is it certified?
Play from 1:27:53Dawn Melson-Williams
Uh so this is Dawn with the Planning Office. Um the code requirement is uh mailed notice. Um they have to pro- provide proof of mailing. Uh they're they are not required to uh send certified. Some applicants choose to do so, but it's not required. They have to prove to us that it was mailed to the mailing list of adjacent property owners that the city provides to them based on our current uh tax records.
Play from 1:28:34Tricia K. Arndt
Got a motion for approval and a second. Any discussion? All in favor?
Play from 1:29:26Tricia K. Arndt
Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you, Ms. Melson-Williams. With no further business, the Parks and Rec and Community Enhancement Subcommittee is adjourned. Thank you to our citizen appointees.
Play from 1:29:30Fred A. Neil
I now recognize Chairman David Anderson to conduct the business of the Legislative, Finance, and Administration Committee. The floor is yours, Councilman Anderson.
Play from 1:29:37David L. Anderson
Thank you, Mr. President. I will uh give a moment. Let's see, do we have uh Mr. Shevock on tonight? Okay, terrific. Terrific, welcome sir. Mr. Garfield, welcome. Thank you for attending tonight.
Play from 1:29:43David L. Anderson
The uh everyone's here. So the park that the uh Legislative, Finance, Administration Committee is now called to order.
Play from 1:30:23David L. Anderson
At this time, we'll have uh a motion for the adoption of the agenda. Councilwoman Hall, um you will be recognized in a moment. Let me get you off mute.
Play from 1:30:36David L. Anderson
Okay. Mr. President, uh you're recognized for a motion uh for adoption of the agenda as amended.
Play from 1:30:56David L. Anderson
Uh there's going to be there's an amendment to uh defer um Item 1 to uh to the next meeting. So we will uh
Play from 1:31:07David L. Anderson
Yeah, make sure it's Item 1. Yes. Uh Item 1 to the next meeting uh and uh and the rest of the agenda as presented. It's it's been moved. Is there a second?
Play from 1:31:19David L. Anderson
Any opposed? The agenda is adopted. That brings us to Item 2, review of uh uh Donnie uh Leggins' Economic Development Fund application. Uh Mr. Hugg, would you like to come forward? And I'll uh defer to you, uh Councilwoman Arndt, and Mr. Leggins, if you'd like to come forward.
Play from 1:32:22Dave Hugg
Um thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dave Hugg, City Manager. Um just a quick review. Some number of months ago, the the Council uh approved the creation of an economic development fund uh, and we've worked on uh various application forms and all that kind of stuff. Uh this is technically the second application that we've received. The first one is the one that you deferred uh consideration of tonight. Um the uh applicant is here in the audience, and I'm sure there'll be some questions for him. But uh basically the request is for $50,000 uh to help uh do some site improvements, site uh sort of extensions, if you will, at um the at Rail Haus. Um these will allow for uh improving some of the the uh the surfaces so that they're, you know, more stable, um increasing the safety, cleanliness, and addressing some of the accessibility issues. Under the uh provision of this of this uh Economic Development Fund, you are required to hold a public hearing. Um this this constitutes the public hearing, uh, but you do have to open it for public comment and whatever. Um there has to be a council sponsor. Councilwoman Arndt is the sponsor of this application, and the application meets all of the requirements for consideration by uh by the Council. So, with that, I'd like to ask um Donnie Leggins if he would like to make a a couple of comments before you open the hearing or if you want to open the hearing and
Play from 1:32:53David L. Anderson
Just say, I'd like to uh allow the sponsor, and then uh and and then I'll uh defer to you, and you can bring the applicant up.
Play from 1:34:14Tricia K. Arndt
Thank you. So, I'm I'm pleased to sponsor this application uh for Mr. Leggins to improve uh his business. I just want to note that he has invested substantial capital in an area that most would not. Uh he has turned a distressed area into not only a place of business, but a place of community. Uh for those of you that are familiar with Rail Haus, uh the events and the community space that he provides um for yoga classes and food trucks and vendor fairs, which support local businesses and support local artists, um he was a recipient of the Delaware American American Planning Association Planning Award for uh 2024. Uh he's been recognized as just a phenomenal business owner um and really just elevating Dover. Um I've met people there that came from Wilmington, from New Castle County, from Philadelphia. Uh he's been featured in, you know, blogs and and uh different press events. Um so it's it's definitely a draw for the city, uh, and I'm certainly uh supportive of him expanding and providing that that um improved outdoor space for future events. And with that, I'll yield.
Play from 1:34:23Donny Leggins
Good evening. I am I'm Donny Leggins, owner of Rail Haus Beer Garden, and um it is an honor to speak here and be in front of you all again. Um I'm here to answer any questions. I know you all have the application in front of you. I don't want to rehash the the entire thing, um, but I do want to be brief, and and some things that probably weren't in the application, just kind of speak from the heart, um, if that's okay. So, 4 years ago, I stood at this very podium and asked for you guys to kind of believe in the vision of a beer garden. First question is, what what's a beer garden? And [laughter] why in that location? And um it was we were coming out of COVID. It was uh 2022, I believe, and um it wasn't a lot going on. Businesses were opening, they were closing, and I had the significant investment and dream that I wanted to do right here in downtown Dover. And um 2 years later, uh, in of of 4 years later, but 2 years of actual service time, I'm here to say that it's been a huge success. I mean, um as Councilwoman Arndt mentioned, people from all over, not just Kent County, but all over the state, uh all over the area, they come and travel and want to see
Play from 1:34:43David L. Anderson
Can I temporarily turn this over to uh Councilwoman Arndt, and I'll get it back? I have an emergency call from the base.
Play from 1:36:37Donny Leggins
You got it. Um so it it's been um a huge success, bigger than what I was imagining uh when we first opened it up. And one of the biggest surprises um I've noticed since running this place for 2 years is the amount of groups that come in town um for Rail Haus. Um groups that are in town, uh companies, Air Force host events here, um we the whole gamut from, again, Air Force base to DSU hosting homecomings, um it the list goes on and on and on. One of our weaker points is the weather. We are only 70 seats inside, and we have 200 people trying to get in. Um that leads us to the outside space. So, we just invested a lot of money in our pavilion with this tent over the um the lawn area. Um the weak part of that plan is really the grass. When it rains, it it's a muddy mess down there. And so, I would like this investment to go toward uh really activating that space. We call it the Great Lawn, but it's our multi-use area. We have 20, 25 seats there, and we could really make that place happen. That's uh some of the images you'll see right here. Um there's you'll see puddling up there. The grass looks great sometimes, but uh we can't guarantee it. And some of the events that we have coming up uh this very year, we have Neighborgoods' um third annual fundraiser, Raise the Roof. They have about 120 people there. Um Delaware Superior Court is going to have 200 people here in May. Um Air Force has the 9th Air Force Squadron has an event coming up pretty soon. Polytech is hosting events here, and then we have um Habitat for Humanity, their 5K race, as well. So, a lot of events going on here. We do have World Cup coming up, so I I see this area being activated. We've booked about 150,000 sort of in this area, and we can almost double that just with guaranteeing that we could plan in advance, and this investment lets us do that. Um so this is just something I wanted to mention, that uh we've really become a community hub. Thanks to you guys for believing in us and doing the the zoning change and land use change, all these things we had to do and jump through the the hoops and and make sure we did it right and did it correct. And um I know I have some uh some familiar faces here. I brought a supporter as well, one of our neighbors, uh just to come and give some words if she wanted to. But again, I just wanted to thank you guys for giving me the chance to apply for this. I love these programs that you guys do, that Kent County does, that Delaware does, and I want to use it to the best of our ability by being a steward of that of that money. So, um I yield. [laughter]
Play from 1:36:44Brian E. Lewis
Uh first of all, I just want you to be aware that um when the uh Economic Development um that we have right now before us uh was introduced, the ordinance, um I voted against it because I wasn't for it for the reason that um I believe it's the people's money and they should decide where that money goes more than us, because it's actually from the sale of properties in the city. I don't know if you know the background with where the money come from, but uh the money comes from sales of properties that the city owns, but in theory the people own. And it was decided to start this uh Economic Development Fund, uh which I had concerns of. So I don't want you to take this personal, because I commend you for the business that you have and for it being open as long as it has, because a lot of businesses fall within a year or two in the city of Dover. Um now, I was reviewing your application and I just have like two questions. Sure.
Play from 1:39:33Brian E. Lewis
Um the first question is that I see that you're asking for $50,000, um and one of the things that you're requesting is an artificial turf to the outdoor beer garden and HVAC upgrades. Now, your restaurant was built in October 2023. Um why the upgrades so soon?
Play from 1:40:32Donny Leggins
So, on you it's not the HVAC for the main building. There's actually a smaller outbuilding um in that corner uh of that picture. It's a old shipping container that we turned into a bar. Um that never had an HVAC inside of it. So, one of the events that that's the uh the the small building right there. So, it's a small mini split system. Um I HVAC, um the official official name. But we host um guest bartending events uh constantly. And one of the biggest ones we did was um the Down Syndrome of Delaware Society. And we had a huge turn out. Um we almost couldn't handle it with the amount of people who came. Just on a regular weekday, it wasn't a Friday or Saturday, just weren't um ready for that influx of folks. So, after that event, we decided that we would move guest bartending events um actually in here, and you're not getting in the way of the actual bartenders that are doing the real mixing. This is just kind of a draft system, super super easy. The issue with that is um that is a shipping container. So, when it's hot outside, it's hot inside. When it's cold outside, it's cold in there. So, that allows us to do more of those events inside of there, um just with a simple mini split system. So, that's the uh the update for that.
Play from 1:40:53Brian E. Lewis
Understood. Thank you. And my second question is, as I read through the application is, uh under the Impact on Downtown Dover, uh the third one down, it says, "Draw additional foot traffic to the downtown district." Now, I've been to your restaurant, and it's way out there away from the downtown area. Um In the future, do you have any anticipations of maybe providing transportation or a shuttle or something? Out of curiosity. [laughter] Uh because like when I read this, I'm like, "Wait a minute. It's not downtown in the district." It is.
Play from 1:42:13Brian E. Lewis
I mean, it may be encompassed in a map, but it's not here. [laughter]
Play from 1:42:29Donny Leggins
So, part of the reason why I actually picked that, uh well, to answer your question, I would love to do that. Um I think in the Capital Plan, there's a chance for micro communi- uh transportation. So, scooters and things like that. We are right in front of a bike lane that's awesome, Senator Bikeway. We use it often. Uh we do a run club every Tuesday, which is why I'm dressed like this. I ran right from here uh to be here today. Um but yeah, the micro communication, I'm totally all about. Um for St. Patty's Day, we actually do rent a bus, and we go to all the places downtown as well. Um so yes, I I am all for it, but we are not in the the main strip of downtown, but the reason why I picked this location is cuz it is in the Downtown Development District um part of it. But I do want to address your first point about uh funds from the sale of property. Um one of the things that we do is that run club. So, every Tuesday, we run and we have Even today, we had 60 people show up. But when it's a good day, we can have 100 people showing up, running around downtown. Part of that is just the fitness of it. Well, I'm an athlete. We like uh running. But the other part is to show people that downtown isn't dangerous. It's a great place to live, a great place to raise a family, a great place to play. And so, we're running that mile loop, we're going from, you know, Community Campus, uh we're going through DSU's we're going through um Silver Lake, DSU's Downtown Campus, and then coming back to Rail Haus. And then, you get these people who are coming from Wilmington, coming from Philadelphia, and they see this area, and it's like, well, you know, I heard some things about this area, um but the houses are nice, the people are great. Um so that's one of the things that we're trying to do, which is going to try to increase uh property values to do more programs like this. So, that's kind of how I would address that the first point that you made.
Play from 1:42:33Brian E. Lewis
I I was just, you know, giving you some background and, you know, the reason how, you know, or why I feel the way I do about this fund.
Play from 1:44:38Donny Leggins
We we don't cross over with the runners. We don't cross over Division Street. So, we stay on on the other side of Division Street.
Play from 1:44:49Brian E. Lewis
Okay. Gotcha. No, when you said that, you know, uh you wanted to show people that Dover isn't dangerous, there are areas that still are.
Play from 1:44:56Brian E. Lewis
So. Um thank you very much uh for answering my questions. And again, uh I don't want you to take uh my vote personal.
Play from 1:45:04Andre M. Boggerty
Thank you. This is you are you are you've been a breath of fresh air. The growth and economic development
Play from 1:45:18Andre M. Boggerty
part of our city, we often hinges on activities and things people can do and gather after work. You've been you've been that. You you survived some tough times. You have employed local individuals, some I know personally, some who are on their second chance as well, um to work. Um you survived a tough business. Part of our development and economic um in in in reinvestment is exactly that. So we can continue to grow and change the narrative of our city, um and not just change the narrative of our city, to show that our city does have some amazing places. Every city USA has a location that maybe isn't uh is not desirable yet, but every but every area does have hope. You being downtown are a part of that hope as downtown expands and business continue to grow. So you have my unwavering support because the day you walked me through that building of that's what you call it before you built and you began to point out your vision, I said I have no clue what you're talking about. And then you go there and not only is that bacon burger one of the most amazing burgers in the city, that bacon pretzel burger, as long as you keep that on the menu, you have my support. And you need another TV so I can watch the game when other people are blocking. So you have my support. Thank you for all that you continue to do. Thank you for the dedication that you and your veteran wife continue—well she's still in, correct?
Play from 1:45:27Andre M. Boggerty
She's still in. You and your being a veteran and being a veteran wife, and also being a place where veterans and and people in the military when they land they they know to come. I've been there and saw individuals who are service members having a great place to eat and dine and showcasing the the great part of our city in the the the part of Dover that that's absolutely positive and needed. So I yield. Thank you.
Play from 1:47:40Brian E. Lewis
Thank you. I'm going to take more from uh uh members of the committee, but I'd like to open up uh to the public cuz I I see somebody I know somebody has to go back home, so I'm going to open up to members of the public right now.
Play from 1:48:06Fred A. Neil
Uh Mr. Legans, I've asked this from time after time after time: when are you going to show up here in lederhosen?
Play from 1:48:29Bonnie Pennington
Hi. My name is Bonnie. I live on Kirkwood Street. I actually live right across the street from the Rail Haus. Now—
Play from 1:48:46Bonnie Pennington
Uh Bonnie Pennington. Um 4 years ago when Donnie first started to open up this bar, I had the main issue. I will not lie. I live right there on the corner. People parked right there in my alley everywhere. I have no issue with that. Now you need to change your mind because Donnie has done a lot in that area, believe it or not, because it's a beer bar. It's it's amazing when you're sitting in the living room and you can hear all them little kids out there having fun. Y'all talk about getting the community together, having something to do for the kids, having them enjoying the outside. Well Donnie does it. I was there on Easter weekend and it was amazing what he done for them children on Easter Sunday. Not nobody else would have done what Donnie done. So before you give the answer no, maybe you should think a little harder cuz I would be the first one to admit I butted heads with Donnie when I first met him. And I'm just honest. I'm going to tell you straight up. We went head to head toe to toe. And right now I made a mistake because I see all the stuff that he's trying to do on that street to improve Kirkwood and what's that Mary Street or Webb Street behind me? Where you at?
Play from 1:48:55Bonnie Pennington
West Street. I don't pay attention to the streets, I just live there. So I'm telling you what I see, what I hear every day, what I accomplish. I'm not going to lie. I actually went down there and tried one of the beers. They were actually pretty good. I'm not going to lie. He's actually brought that area up, and I think if you guys give him the chance to put that grass out there and make that community better, it's going to bring a lot more people into town. Listen, that road when it gets wet, it floods out. I can be the first one to tell you when I first moved there, I walked out on that street, water was up to my kneecaps. So you guys improving that area with that bar, you brought the water level up a little bit, but not as, you know, it should be. But I'm going to tell you something right here and right now: I will back Donnie up 100% now trying to help him to get that club the way it needs to be and obtained just so he can run it. That's all I got to say.
Play from 1:49:44Brian E. Lewis
Thank you. Now you got to get back to your grandson, so thank you for coming out tonight. Uh since being fair, any other members of the public, uh come on forward, please. And then I am going to give back to members of the committee.
Play from 1:50:52Cameron Llewellyn
My name is Cameron Llewellyn, 117 West Reed Street, um what's left of of that facility after the collision last night. So um many of you here know that um we did a lot of the construction work there uh when the beer garden was built. So I want to give you a quick history lesson just to kind of help you guys understand, uh especially you, Councilman Lewis. The um that facility in the '30s, '40s, and '50s was part of the railroad. Does anybody here know what creosote is?
Play from 1:51:09Cameron Llewellyn
Railroad ties. Also, all through The reason the the roof of that building was intact is it was coated with creosote. So no matter how bad the roof leaked, it was basically better than pressure-treated. So when we dug in that area uh to put the conduits in and uh, you know, handle all the infrastructure for the speakers and sound and lights and so on, it was like digging almost like through asphalt because that is where they put creosote on the railroad ties. So you put creosote into sand and it's it's basically like asphalt. And if we dug through it, and it you know, it became almost like this black talcum powder-like substance, and then after it would rain, it turned back into almost asphalt. Uh you couldn't dig through it. You had to jackhammer and pick through it. So so the there's nobody in their right mind that would buy that property and put a beer garden there. I think we all agree, right? So yeah. So we thought the reason we had issues with uh it was there was a lot of concrete there, and we got all that concrete out and we sent it over to Corrado's and had it crushed, uh but it still would not drain. Um Donnie didn't have the money in his budget for us to dig down 4, 5 feet and pull all that material out, export it, it where's it go? Who's going to take it? I don't know. Um it's going to cost a lot of money. So we went down about 6 inches, put topsoil in, put sod in, and said, "We got to send it, because we have a restaurant to open, because if we don't we don't get open, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that everybody that was a naysayer driving by there saying 'This man's lost his mind', they were going to be right." So so we agreed that we were just going to put sod down over a couple inches of topsoil and it is what it is, um but it it has created a problem because nothing will perk through it. It just the the water sits on top and it it's uh it's closer to a parking lot than it is grass. Uh but these engineered uh grasses, we can uh the the folks that gave him this proposal can grade that and handle that a little bit better, and uh you know, that's kind of the the why. As for the air conditioning he's he's looking for, it it just makes that usable again. So any questions, speak up. Otherwise, I'm just here to enlighten you uh just a little bit, okay?
Play from 1:51:47Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.
Thank you. Um I think it's it's going to be um it's enhance that area, and you know I've I've DJ'd there before. It's a high traffic area, so the grass probably, you know, is going to be an issue. I think that grade, and I think between the different seasons, it's just going to, you know, enhance it for outdoor activities no matter what time of the year it is. I you know, I'm I'm fully in support of what what is being presented tonight, so with that said, I I yield.
Play from 1:54:28Brian E. Lewis
Any other members of the public? Okay, I'm going to go back to the committee then. Uh Dr. Sudler, you're recognized.
Play from 1:55:04Roy Sudler, Jr.
I just wanted to thank you for recognizing me. I just wanted to say, um, great job Donnie with what you've done, especially in the 4th District. It's a great, um, model for other businesses to, uh, mimic, and I appreciate you being there and for the city of Dover, and my, our constituents. Thank you, thank you for investing in the city of Dover. I yield.
Play from 1:55:17Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.
Uh just one more thing also, um in reference to the downtown district and what is getting ready to happen on on Loockerman Street, I think once we see the full uh you know, by 2030 or whatever that takes place, you will see the connection between where the beer garden is located and the proximity of Lock- Lockerman I know I'm saying that wrong, but I you know, for for all intents and purposes, Loockerman Street. Um I think that the development is going to extend and around to your location, which will be embraced by the foot traffic that's going to be in that area. So you are included, as you said, in the downtown uh district. Thank you, I yield.
Play from 1:55:42Jonathan Garfinkel
Thank you. Uh congratulations on developing a very thriving business, it's uh not a small feat. What is the duration of this project?
Play from 1:56:41Donnie Legans
Um they they can actually do it this winter, um once we say go. It's probably um 10-day process to get the old sod off, level it off, put the nail boards in, um get the materials to us. Um we're trying to go to DE Turf to be cost-effective and see if they have any old turf. I know Fifer redid their area with old DE Turf. I reached out to Linda Parkowski, she said, "Uh it's it's all spent." They they they used it all, so I'll keep reaching out for um So they have a huge area and they replace those fields every so often. Um so it was a chance that I thought we could save a few dollars. Um but other than that, we'll just get it brand new. Um so it's, you know, it's the the cost that was in the budget versus a little bit cheaper if I got it from DE Turf.
Play from 1:56:53Jonathan Garfinkel
Did did you initially try to obtain this loan from a bank or a credit union?
Play from 1:57:40Donnie Legans
Um I did not. So we just invested in uh the tent, the the ceiling part. Um and that was a sizable investment to make sure that, you know, you're protected from the elements, rain, um that sort of thing. Um we didn't have enough for the the grounds. Uh we just did that investment last year, it was 20, 25.
Play from 1:57:46Donnie Legans
Yeah, we're trying to we're trying to use the operational funds to do more of this. So this is going to be um entangled with our current um bank account to make sure this happens. If there's any overages with the project, we'll make it happen.
Play from 1:58:09Robin R. Christiansen
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A young man came into my office during COVID with an idea, and dream big or go home, I told you, remember? And you had a big dream and you didn't go home, and I'm glad you're here. And I glad to see you expand. My only other request is my only other comment before I make a request of you, Donnie, uh is that your neighbors love you, and I know other establishments in this community that the neighbors don't like. So that's a feather in your cap, and just continue the great work. And can you start having some light beer? I yield, Mr. Chairman.
Play from 1:58:37Dave Hugg
The only thing that I need to do on behalf of Donnie is just is to tell you that we that I've recommended approval of this application, and need council's approval this evening to move forward.
Play from 1:59:37Brian E. Lewis
Thank you. I thank you. So the if there has been staff uh recommendation of approval. What is the pleasure of uh committee? Uh Councilman Rocha, you're recognized.
Play from 1:59:50Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.
I I move to accept staff recommendation for the repo- the approval of the grant by uh Legislative Finance and Administration Committee in the amount of $50,000.
Play from 2:00:04Brian E. Lewis
Thank you. It's been moved by uh uh Councilman Rocha and uh seconded by uh Dr. Pillsbury. And and discussion? And I I'll give mine, and
Play from 2:00:16David L. Anderson
I'm going to uh gladly support this application. Uh, I what because and uh, I always uh want to have an explanation. I'm going to explain why so that people have a standard of why I'm voting for this. And I may or may not vote for something else. I I'm looking at it for community impact. Um, I'm for every business uh doing well. However, we don't have uh economic development money for every business. And so, I'm looking to see why should this one be different than just helping a business that we do with money we give to DDP with facade grants. A lot of businesses get them, etc. You've gotten that before. Um, but this fund's special and it and one of the criteria is community impact. Even though it's a for-profit business, it meets that community impact tremendously. Um, and the community would be so much poorer without this business. And I think the the micro businesses that depend upon it, the nonprofits, the you've built not just a wonderful business with delicious food, by the way, you know, I had some events, brought some people at events there. Um, but also with quite frankly, it's been a positive thing for the nonprofits. It's been a positive thing to get other businesses started. And so this is an economic development incubator. And I think this is exactly what we're looking for with this fund. It's the exact reason why we developed this fund. We developed this fund so that when we money was came from the sale of properties in Garrison, in particular, that that money wouldn't just be spent. But it would be reinvested back into economic development, and creating jobs, and creating workforce development, and creating new business, and creating a better community. That was the purpose of it. So otherwise, it would just end up getting spent, brought back into the general budget, we'd never see it again, and we would lose the impact. This is the reinvestment so that we can keep building taxable income. We after we do this, your property's going to be more valuable, we'll get more taxes off of it, which is a good thing. Um, but this is a, but it keeps building the economy, jobs, taxable income. And that's what we're doing, reinvesting into the community. Um, with that, if there's no Councilman Lewis?
Play from 2:00:31Brian E. Lewis
I'm not going to vote no. I'm going to abstain. I'm not going to vote at all. And again, it has nothing to do with you or your restaurant. It has to do with the economic development fund. My concern is, and this is for the record, and Mr. Hugg knows and is well very well aware of my position on this, is it used to go into the general fund. And if we got into a jam where the city went into a deficit, we would be able to use that money instead of raise taxes. So that's my rationale behind the whole thing. And I stand that with any application that comes before us that's looking for money from the economic development fund. Because I'm concerned, okay, the way the budget looks, that we may go into a deficit. I'm not saying we are, but it kind of looks a little gloomy. So that's where I stand on that. So that has nothing to do with you, nothing to do with your restaurant. You're doing a fabulous job. So I'm just going to abstain. Thank you.
Play from 2:03:42Andre M. Boggerty
Yes, where did you get that spiffy jacket from? That is a blazer, non the less.
Play from 2:06:10uh Jason Lyon
Uh good evening, uh Chair, uh fellow council members and team Dover. My name is uh Jason Lyon, director of water, wastewater and engineering services. Before you this evening is a semi-annual uh repair project that we do to our Silver Lake dam. Um somewhat close proximity to the rail house that we were talking about. Um so as everyone knows, the dam um is significantly aged. Uh so we do an annual inspection on the dam uh to see what needs to be done and repaired.
Play from 2:06:27uh Jason Lyon
Thank you. Um so the results of the previous inspection yielded some repairs that needed to be done. They are listed on your committee action form, but for reference, there's some underground repairs that need to be underwater repairs that need to be done. Some fence underneath the water level needs to be repaired. High-density epoxy, some riprap, which is just a fancy word for big stone that's up against the base of the dam to prevent any erosion, and some significant crack repairs, and some sidewalks near the the boat ramp that is starting to undermine. So we put this out to bid, utilizing the State Office of Supplier Diversity for eligible contractors to do this work. This is kind of a specialized work. Not everyone can work underwater, especially with some of the repairs that needed to be done.
Play from 2:07:44uh Jason Lyon
Um the bids came in about 28% higher than we anticipated. Uh we received two bids, uh one from Mor-Allen, uh the other from Coastal Engineering. Both these companies have done work on our dam in the past. Uh so we found that they have the qualifications and the um and the experience to perform the work needed for these repairs. Um to help offset the shortfall in this project, we had um uh additional money uh from the street program that was uh came in about 125,000 under budget. Uh so that is our recommendation. I will be happy to answer any questions.
Play from 2:08:51David L. Anderson
Thank you. Councilman Lewis, you're recognized. Then Councilman Rocha.
Play from 2:09:44Brian E. Lewis
I was looking at the uh action form, Mr. Lyon, and um I see that um you're going to uh have to utilize money from somewhere else because there's a shortfall. Uh my question is, um what's going to happen if we use that money, and can you explain why there is a shortfall?
Play from 2:09:50uh Jason Lyon
So, the explanation that I received from uh the bidders was essentially just prices are going up with the equipment that's needed for these repairs. I hear that with every project. Also, we only had two bidders on the project. So, um trying to find more companies that do this work is difficult in this area. Um so I think they know that they don't have a lot of competition. Now, in order with with regards to your first question, what's going to happen with the money that's being used, um again, we had the street program was uh we actually had savings in that project. So, um theoretically, that money could be moved back into the general fund um with not being used and be used as seen fit. Um our team's recommendation is to use it towards this uh repair that's necessary.
Play from 2:10:11Brian E. Lewis
My second question is did did you attempt to apply for assistance through any agencies, uh example DNREC, FEMA, okay, uh responsible for dam safety repairs? I don't know if you're aware of that. I did some research. Uh they administer um National Dam Safety Program uh and they provide grants and technical assistance to states and local governments to enhance dam safety repairs. Um I printed this out for you.
Play from 2:11:01Brian E. Lewis
Do you want to possibly maybe look into it and and come back to us on this matter or is uh there time constraints? Because I'm not going to support it because if you could get money through this grant,
Play from 2:11:33uh Jason Lyon
I I don't know how long that I don't have any research on that. I appreciate you bringing that forward. Uh I can tell you with other federal grants that we've received, it takes two to three years to get that money. So, I'd be happy to look into it. Um but I would say that these repairs should be done in a timely manner.
Play from 2:11:47Brian E. Lewis
So when you say they should be done, um how would you rate it? Immediately? Is it a danger to the community?
Play from 2:12:06uh Jason Lyon
So these particular these particular um repairs are not necessarily deemed as immediate repairs. So every year we have a Silver Lake dam inspection by a professional engineer, uh they rate it based on um how big of an impact it's going to be if it doesn't get repaired right away. These are not immediate repairs, drop everything emergency, fix it. They're the second level down.
Play from 2:12:14Brian E. Lewis
I'm going to hand this over to you, and it would behoove you to look into this because it could save the city and the taxpayers money.
Play from 2:12:37Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.
Thank you. Uh I'm going to make a motion to accept staff recommendation, but I do want to comment in a and a an appreciation for bringing that forward. Uh and it's you know, it's unfortunate that we we get to see this at at this stage, you know what I mean? But I do appreciate, you know, identifying the grant. And I'm pretty sure this is not the you know, the only the only type of maintenance or whatever that needs to be done to the dam, so that's definitely going to enhance and and be a benefit to our city. So I appreciate you doing that. But in the meantime, understanding that the work needs to be done, I am going to make a motion to accept staff uh recommendation uh considering the fact that if we wait any longer, the prices may still go up, uh to award the contract to Mor-Allen Concrete Products uh for the uh services and repairs of the Silver Lake dam.
Play from 2:12:53David L. Anderson
It's it's been moved and uh multiple seconds. Um, and uh public comment. Uh please make it quick, sir.
Play from 2:13:56Public Speaker 1
Yes, I want to ask the question, um Mr. Lyons, have you reached out to other municipalities about a contractors that does this type of work uh outside of two contractors that you receive bid from, like DC Water of other municipalities in the United States?
Play from 2:14:10uh Jason Lyon
Uh well, we we deal with the um the dam inspection program at DNREC. Uh there's a lady there that inspects all the dams in the state, and she referred us to utilizing the the State Office of Supplier Diversity to find companies that are appropriate for this.
Play from 2:14:39Public Speaker 1
For future for future contracts, I think it might be a good ideal to reach out to other municipalities that have dealt with this type of project on a consistent basis, and you might find other bidders. Thank you.
Play from 2:15:00David L. Anderson
Thank you. All right, thank you. Yeah, is there a dis- discussion? Um seeing none. All Madam money, spending money, so, Madam Clerk, please call the roll.
Play from 2:15:14Jason Lyon
Uh for the record, again, Jason Lyon, Director of Water and Wastewater Engineering Services. Uh
Play from 2:15:38Roy Sudler, Jr.
Hey, I'm sorry, let me also, motion passes, uh it's recommended to council.
Play from 2:15:42Jason Lyon
Understood. Um so, um full transparency, I was before this committee um late November of of last year and I was ill prepared for questions. Uh Mr. Garfinkel brought up some questions about uh how these roads are rated and how the city determines which roads get redone. Um I was not under the impression that you knew the rehabilitation versus reconstruction. Um I followed up this to this team with an email with a full description of that. I hope that got to everybody. And I'd be happy to rehash that. But what came out of that meeting was an overview of how we rate our roads, what we've done in the past, um and how things move forward. So, that is my task this evening. Uh a little bit of background. The the last comprehensive survey of all streets in the city of Dover was done in 2017. Uh what we seem to to see is about a 10-year evaluation of roads, um and I'll get into the reason why uh later. Um The this this particular project was performed and evaluated by one team member. Uh that team member was an engineer. Uh we we chose one team member so that they would have the same opinion of a road as they go through different roads throughout the city. This is our inventory at the time. Um we have gone up a scosh uh with the dedication of some streets. Uh but again, those roads uh conceivably would be in good shape because they would have been built after 2017. Uh go to the next slide, please.
Play from 2:15:48Jason Lyon
So, uh the city of Dover utilized something called RSMS, which is Road System Management Software. Um It's difficult to see, but this is this is something that you can you can utilize for free from an LTAP from Maine. Um New Hampshire also has one. Uh but this is a a software program that is utilized. Uh it takes into a a variety of different factors uh in an effort to try to make this as objective as possible. It's it's in- for a human to go through each road and look at every single crack and every single pothole and say this one is bigger than the next, it's very difficult to do, especially with the fact this took our team member over 10 months to work on. Um Pretty much this was the only thing that that person was doing for that time. Um So, and we'll get into the to the matrix of everything, but it keep in mind that it takes into account the severity of an of a distress, uh the extent of a distress, traffic volume, drainage, and road importance. Um So road importance could be if it's a road that connects different developments, or if it's a road that directly leads to a hospital or a school, uh that would get a higher rating. Uh traffic volume is pretty, you know, obvious. It's just more traffic on that road, higher rated. And, of course, drainage would be um something that kind of deteriorates a road quicker because there's road s- standing water that creates uh problems with the road that you'll see in a few slides. Uh Go to the next one, please.
Play from 2:18:00Jason Lyon
Um these may be difficult to see on the screen, um but these are just examples of roads in the city. Uh this particular alley is showing a lot of different distresses. Um On the edge of the road, where there is no curb, you'll see edge cracking, which is the first part of of road deterioration. Um The alligator cracking is something that you see um that looks like an alligator skin. It's got little chunks of asphalt with these little meandering cracks going through it. Uh Longitudinal uh versus transverse cracking. Longitudinal is with the length of the road. Transverse would be perpendicular to the road. Um So this this particular alley has pretty much all of that um in spades. So we can go on to the next slide, please.
Play from 2:20:54Jason Lyon
Uh potholes, these are things that are very easy to to note. You guys probably get a lot of complaints from your constituents about there's a pothole on the road, we got to fix it. That generally goes to our team and the Public Works Department to uh address it as funds and time allow. Um But to be quite honest, they're just patching it. And so a patch on a road when you evaluate a street rate uh the street rating, uh a patch is a form of failure that could cause additional failures down the road. Um Drainage, of course, that's if standing water's around. Roughness is really just the top coat of the road. If it starts getting a little bit um uh worn, and there's friction, and you start seeing pebbles coming up, that's the roughness. That's another distress that's taken into account. Uh Next slide, please.
Play from 2:22:21Jason Lyon
Uh this last one is is basically just rutting. Uh so you can kind of see on the um in the edges of this road, you can see that there's a little bit of a dip there from uh excess weight of vehicles going down that road. My guess is that road wasn't designed with a lot of sub-base, um causing this road to kind of fail. Um So again, these are just distresses. I wanted to put some pictures in front of everyone to understand that these are the things that our team member was looking for in 2017 when they were going through each and every road in the city of Dover. Okay. Next slide.
Play from 2:23:09Jason Lyon
So, um Mr. Garfinkel, this is the point that you were you were making. These are the different categories that we have from the software. So, the software doesn't kick out like a number like out of a hundred. Um it puts them into different categories based on how you uh enter information into a matrix. Um So from the top, it's the roads that are in really good condition. As we go down, those are the ones that have the the major major concerns. Uh Reconstruction is the worst rated. And um keep in mind that since we started this uh 2017 rating, we are still in reconstruction phase. That means we still have roads that are in that need of reconstruction. Um I'm not going to read all this for you, but basically um you know, we're going from least maintenance all the way to the the most important one to repair. Next slide.
Play from 2:24:18Jason Lyon
Uh so this is the this is the the a screenshot of the program. Um I'm going to focus on the top right to start with. So um our engineer would would go into the out in the field, he would he would jot down all the information. Uh The the the the matrix on the right, the 3x3 grid, you see extent on the top, low, medium, high, so that is how much of the road is being affected by this distress. And this particular is um alligator cracks, which is highlighted. Uh And then on the left axis, you have something called um severity. So let's say that there's a lot of alligator cracking, but it's not super deep, so maybe you put that under a severity of low, or you have a very significant uh severity, you put under high. And this would go into the software program and it would crank out the numbers um based on all the distresses that are that are there. You enter in the information, um algorithm kicks out a a score. Uh I put on the definitions inside the user's manual of the importance and traffic volumes for your benefit. Uh kind of explained those already, uh but they're there for your use. Um Go on to the next slide.
Play from 2:25:55Jason Lyon
Um and so this is a screenshot of of kind of what This isn't our inventory. This is just from the the manual. Um So, again, after all the information is inputted into the system, the RSMS software uh puts everything together, spits out all of these uh rankings, and then in each of those five rankings that I mentioned earlier, there's a sub-ranking of 1 to 10, one being least concerning, 10 being the most concerning. Um So we have this information that's provided to us. Um We can filter it. We can We can um We can put stuff in order based on developments. Um So that's what what we have to work with. Uh We export this into a Excel spreadsheet, um and that information, of course, is is kept up to date as we as we improve roads uh throughout the years. Um Think that was it. Be happy to answer any questions related to this.
Play from 2:27:55Jonathan Garfinkel
Do you have a quality control audit of the input documents, as well as what's out- outputted?
Play from 2:29:40Jason Lyon
So are you asking if if another team member evaluated everything that was reviewed in the field, or are you asking if there's something in the software?
Play from 2:29:47Jonathan Garfinkel
Not everyone. If you take a statistical audit, you have what, how many, thousand streets? Okay. So, one out of every 10 or one out of every 15 gets audited, Mhm. just to make sure that the system is working properly. Do you do that?
Play from 2:29:52Fred A. Neil
If repairs merely are cosmetic, as can be the case particularly with flipper houses, and the loan officer recommends his father as the realtor, and you, a mother with a disability and two young children can be in a world of health and financial hurt. And that's what brought this ordinance about, the Lemon House Ordinance. Referred to us by former council member Ralph Taylor, the lady in question, a former federal investigator, purchased the home, or rather a money pit, in 2022. She brought to us copious written documents and a cornucopia of photographs validating her complaints. Delaware has no protection for a homebuyer once the mortgage is a done deal. The matter is considered civil, meaning you need to be wealthy to fight it, but if you're wealthy, you do not get help from DSHA. While the victim In With the victim's input and help from my council colleagues and co-sponsor Gerald Rocha, and two icons of the real estate industry, this ordinance has been created. What it does in effect, it requires the homebuyer to initial everything that has been discovered wrong with the house and that gives them a chance to renegotiate the price of the home or walk away. A home can be sold as is or buyer beware at a lower price.
Play from 2:30:39Fred A. Neil
When the appraiser in this case claimed the house had smoke smoke detectors and did not, you know that something radically wrong. It took an agency board 3 years to slap a small fine on the appraiser and required that the individual go back to school for more training. No one has made the homebuyer whole for the expenses that occurred that should never have happened. This is a preventative motion and I hope that this ordinance will go into effect. I yield to Councilman Rocha.
Play from 2:32:04Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.
Thank you, uh, Council President Neil. Yeah, so, uh, with, uh, Ms. Butcher and she outlined, uh, the process, uh, you know, it it it just, um, and she said she's not the only one, even though some of them might may not be, um, in the city of Dover. Uh, I initially reached out to the legislators to see if they would upgrade what's on the books on the state level, which they did not, which is one of the reasons why I'm I'm a sponsor with Mr. Neil on on this, uh, because, um, the state only requires a as a minimum home inspection, uh, a walkthrough, which is basically to make sure that there's running water and no identifiable leaks, and, you know, it's really not as comprehensive as it needs to be.
Play from 2:32:49Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.
And even if it is a walkthrough, the buyer needs to be explained to what different levels of a home inspection is, so that the the buyer, potential buyer has the knowledge or the make can make an informed decision on which home inspection they're willing to accept. And I think that this this legis- this ordinance does that, um, at least makes the buyer or the potential buyer uh gives them a level of understanding by initialing each area, uh, in a checklist that, uh, will give them the you know, the thought process to to make an informed decision on which inspection they want to take. But, you know, obviously, the the the the more the ins- the more, um, level the different levels of in- the inspection can cost more money, that would be a choice for the buyer to say, 'Okay, I'll pay for the walkthrough, and that's it,' but at least giving them the idea that the the walkthrough is not the only type of inspection to thoroughly look at the house. And that's what I think we're trying to do, and, um, you know, uh if it was me, I would say it would be comprehensive all across the board, but you know, some some individuals maybe that might be too much money, but at least giving them the awareness of it before they make the investment and then find out later that the they have to spend more money because they didn't know, um, based on the uh selection of the uh inspection that they they uh uh uh that they were they accepted. So with that said, you know, I yield uh back to uh Council President, and, um, I look forward to hearing uh other remarks.
Play from 2:33:50Fred A. Neil
Yeah, basically that that's what you have. It's basically this is a preventative to make sure the person doesn't get trapped. Once you get trapped, you have your literally that your finances could be tied up. If you walk away from a deal, you basically lose your your financial credibility, and that can cost you down the down the line. I yield, Mr. Mr. Chairman.
Play from 2:35:49Roy Sudler, Jr.
Thank you, Mr. President. Uh, are there any questions from members of the committee? Uh, Councilwoman Arndt.
Play from 2:36:04Tricia K. Arndt
Thank you. Um, so I appreciate the intent, I'm just trying to understand, um, is this an issue that is specific to DSHA-sponsored housing assistance and mortgages, or is this an issue generally? Um, I don't have a lot of real estate experience, but, um, I do know that there's the seller's disclosure, and you can have your own, um, inspection, uh, if you want to go beyond the seller's disclosure. So, I I don't understand how this is outside of that process. It it sounds like the resident in question should have had a better inspection. Is that Is that Okay. Um, and and this would change that how?
Play from 2:36:10Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.
So, generally, this would this would affect the uh or inform the buyer. The buyer would almost like when I bought my house, right, um, I was fortunate with the realtor that I had, and they didn't order a walkthrough for me. I had a full-on inspection of my house that I was able to make an informed decision on whether or not I wanted to buy based on what the inspector found. Um, and I don't know if it's specific to DSHA or or or anything like that, but in her case, whoever the realtor was ordered the walkthrough, maybe making an assumption that she couldn't afford anything else.
Play from 2:37:16Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.
What we're trying to do, if and correct me if I'm wrong, um, Council President Neil, is open open up the to the the potential buyer that these are the different inspections and that they can almost choose which one they want based on, because you know, you pay for that up front before you even go into closing. So, if you can't afford it, you decide you're going to take it with a walkthrough inspection and, but at least you're at least you're informed on what inspection you're choosing versus you didn't know and you signed off and bought the house. If this is your if you're a first-time homebuyer, you may not have a clue. This This kind of gives you a clue with this ordinance.
Play from 2:38:05Fred A. Neil
Basically, um, what occurred was a cover-up through a flipper house. For those people who don't know what a flipper house is, somebody buys a house, flipped and they they haven't lived in it. And one of the disclosures that you have to do, if you live in a house, you have to admit what problems the house has. A flipper hasn't lived in the house, can say, 'I don't know any problems.' So when cosmetic, um, are cover-ups in terms of what could be there, could be, um, termite inspections, which are covered up. And I, unfortunately, had served, uh, for 35 years on a part-time basis for the Maryland State Pest Control Association, and I know all about that type of thing, what they do and how they handle it. So when a person comes into that home, and that inspection is made, only certain parts of that inspection are essential for the approval, uh, for FHA.
Play from 2:39:05Fred A. Neil
Um, you can cover up a a hole in the roof with a patch, and they can say it's been patched, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it really has been fixed. In this case, this is one of the problems that she ran into. In other cases, it was, uh, water damage that was covered up with a rug, and she could not see the water damage, and the inspector doesn't have to have that on there. But if it's listed of all the problems that are there, they didn't go over all the problems that existed, she didn't have to sign off on it, we're calling it that you have to sign off on that so that nobody can say that you did not know that the problem was there and it becomes your problem.
Play from 2:40:09Fred A. Neil
In the case of, uh, a a missing smoke detector throughout the house, she had presumed that it was there, it was they said it was there. She missed it, and basically there's nothing done about that. It's not considered fraud. So you're trying to move the area where the fraud has been committed, and that the state does not recognize it as fraud, but they say it's a civil problem, go sue. If you lose that suit, you are responsible for the legal paid off the the legal bills of the person that you're suing. So you this is just a check-off to make sure that the person sees what the problems were that were listed and that they're going to check off, 'Yes, I know it. I see it. I see it. I accept it. I accept it. Accept. Accept,' so that you have that immediate check-off before you final sign that that deal. Once you have that loan, you're committed to that loan.
Play from 2:41:12Fred A. Neil
And that has nothing to do with whether it's DSHA or or or on the open market. It covers everybody. The person with DH- DC- DSHA loan or they've got the loan for you means that you you are are in financial difficulty, you can't go onto the open market as required to come up with the money that's necessary for down payment and the like. They've got a loan for you. So it has nothing to do really with that because this law affects everybody, but it hurts the people who do not have the money and have to go to DHA to get, uh, get the loan.
Play from 2:42:06Andre M. Boggerty
Thank you. Mayor with that as well. I have a thank you for recognizing. I have a couple questions, maybe not a couple, well, a couple. The, um, having bought a little house or two myself, there's this document called the seller disclosure of real property. Um, what is the difference between document the seller disclosure, I know I had to check. Fortunately, and I'm fortunate well no, fortunately, I'm a VA person, so that inspector looked at everything. Um, but um, but you know, outside of that, the seller disclosure of real property, and then it's the one that's mandated by Delaware law is 6 Delaware Code 2578, um, this for you know to reveal material defects, ensuring transparency, etc. I'm I'm for the protection of it. I just want to make sure What is, you know, what is the difference between what we're doing and what the state has already mandated in that form that's already in place? Is there a Is there a difference?
Play from 2:42:57Fred A. Neil
No. In fact, all the documents that the, uh, real estate industry has is built into this. If they change it, it also is built into this. So you have to have the disclosure to begin with. Okay? But let's say you've never lived in the house, you came in and inspected, you want to clean it up and sell it. So they can honestly say, 'I don't know that there's a plumbing problem. I don't know that there was major, uh, electrical problem.' And if it is not picked up by the appraiser, who then is say saying, because that's the second report, and the second report very clearly says that if you have certain defectives defections, uh uh, uh, deficiencies that have to be corrected and aren't, you should not get the loan. And in this case, this lady basically had that. It says there they should not give that the loan, she got the loan. They gave her the loan. Why did they give her a loan when all these things were out? So this measure is basically to take that appraisals, the appraiser's report and then check off, 'I see that this is a problem and this I I don't accept it, or I do accept it,' and you understand it when you're going in to buy that house. Because you may want to go into the house and say, 'Oh, I can make the change in the locks in the house or do whatever you want.' But it basically opens it up to make sure that they understand what they're getting when they get into the...
Play from 2:44:02Fred A. Neil
us, because at that point, there's no recourse. You don't have nothing that you can do to help yourself. So, it acts as a prophylactic to prevent you from getting into trouble, to making sure you have as much information as you possibly can. But all everything that the real estate industry requires is a part of the law. That is it, and if it changes, if they say we want to do something different, it's automatically built into this ordinance so that those same protections are in there for the individual. It doesn't change any of that. It just makes sure that the person who comes in who is going to dot the right i and cross the right t or either be able to walk away before they sign the deal and get into a financial uh in trouble.
Play from 2:45:43Andre M. Boggerty
Okay. Thank you um for that. So it looked like it's, again, another layer. Uh would there be a a a municipal document that we that will have to be signed at closing? Like there would, what-
Play from 2:46:15Fred A. Neil
Well, it's the same same document that are is presented, only that the the buyer is going to have to go over it line by line and check it off. Which you don't have to do now. You don't have to touch anything. Now it says you check this off, that you know what's on that on those papers. Because she did not get the opportunity to look at those papers and to check it off, so she wasn't aware of what was happening. And this is usually the role of of the realtor, going over that information for you. This is this, this is what it is, this is what you have to do, this is when you come into settlement, and she did not have that opportunity to do that. And when she came in, there was all kinds of problems in the house that she had to repair because uh of of her kids, uh the the mold, the other type of things that that you're running into. So
Play from 2:46:51Fred A. Neil
you want to make sure that the that is done. And it isn't done, it isn't required. What- but every single paper that is required today by in the real estate industry is included in this. And so there's no change in that. There's uh the only that there's a penalty of a person who's found that it that they did not follow the the uh the the ordinance, they can't do business in the state of, in the city of Dover.
Play from 2:47:24Roy Sudler, Jr.
Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions? Online? Members of the public? Uh yes. Please come forward, Mr. Faust.
Play from 2:48:11William Faust
William Faust. I'd just like to mention when I bought my house in 2002, I had a walkthrough, I had an inspection. I had a guy who was highly recommended inspect the house. Checked everything. They can- they are protected if they can find visible. If it's concealed, I'll give you an example. He checked the insulation, the insulation was great. He found I had a crack heater block. So the homeowner had to replace the heater block, the heater. But no one told me that there was no insulation in my home. I'm sitting there and it's cold out and I can see my breath in the air. So what I was told back then, I don't know if it's changed, if it's not visible and it's, you know, you can't see it, they're not held responsible. I also had concealed uh termite damage, cuz I ripped up rugs cuz they were you move into a house, it's like the rugs are terrible, they're dirty, so I ripped it up. There was concealed termite damage and it was patched, and someone had treated it, but no one had documented how they treated. It was a Section 8 house at one time, and it was flipped. But there's checks and balances, so I don't know if the things have changed, but any inspector, if he doesn't see it and it's concealed, there's nothing they can do. Unless the law has changed since 2002.
Play from 2:48:20Roy Sudler, Jr.
Anyone else? What is the pleasure of the committee? Uh Councilwoman Arndt.
Play from 2:50:10Tricia K. Arndt
Sorry, I'm I'm just I'm struggling with this one. Um I For me, I'm I'm I'm a facts and data person and and I I don't understand this issue well enough to make an informed decision on on this ordinance. Um so I'm I'm going to be abstaining from this vote um just because I I don't feel like I'm ready to to make a decision. I yield.
Play from 2:50:16Roy Sudler, Jr.
Moved for adoption by Council President Neil, seconded by Councilman Rocha. All those in favor?
Play from 2:50:41Roy Sudler, Jr.
Two abstentions? Okay, the motion passes, and it's recommended to council. Thank you.
Play from 2:51:22Roy Sudler, Jr.
All right. At this time, seeing no other business before the Legislative, Finance, and Administration Committee, we stand adjourned, and turn it back over to Council President Neil with for Council Committee of the Whole.
Play from 2:51:28Fred A. Neil
Is there any other business before the council as a whole? Seeing none, this meeting is adjourned.
Play from 2:51:38