Transcript: Council Workshop

David Hugg

Council President, I'd like to call this session to order, please.

Fred A. Neil

Yes. Please, Mr. Hugg. If you will, if I may make a few remarks before we start in terms of welcome.

David Hugg

Sure.

Off Fred A Neil

Usually, if you go to see a show or an act, you see the person coming on first is for a little bit of entertainment, sort of get you ready for the big star, this big show. The big show really are the members of our staff who I know from personal experience of covering as a newsman, then working for the Mayor of Baltimore as his press officer, and then 20-some years in state government with the State of Maryland, that the members of the staff are the real stars. They're the people who deal with the public more directly. They're the people who deal with getting the work done that has to be done. And I think that this particular time during this great chill, the snow, whatever, they even though it closed the city for 2 days, they didn't get time off. They had to work, even if they were working from home. So they're my heroes, and it's their show today, and it's their show to for for this. So with that, welcome. Delighted to have you, and I turn the entire program over to you, Mr. City Manager. It's yours.

David Hugg

Thank you, sir. I appreciate your comments about our staff. We have an awesome staff, and you've certainly seen evidence of that this last 92 hours or whatever it is. This is our annual council workshop, a little bit different this year than than, I think, in the previous years. You have kind of an agenda with the topics that we're going to talk about, and we'll go through them in a minute. The thing that's particularly different is this year, I asked all the all the department heads to address sort of six points as it relates to their department. What they don't know, probably, or maybe they read their email, is today they're going to get 5 minutes, and they're five their 5 minutes is The reason for that is I want them to focus on the most critical thing affecting their department. It may be their function. It may be staffing. It may be whatever it is. But I want I want to hear it just like you want to hear, you know, what's the thing that really is most important to them that they can summarize and present to you in 5 minutes or less. So when we get to that part, they're warned, and I'll call them in order. Our purpose today is, as I said, it's the annual workshop. This time of the year, are you going to put the slides up, or what? Okay. This time of the year, we've we've begun the the budget process. This workshop is intended to get some preliminary, early council input of approvals, if you will, agreements, disagreements as we start to put the budget together. And I'm going to talk a little bit about that as we get in in later into later. One of the crises, or not crises, it's one of the issues that I'm particularly concerned about is sometimes the direction and the expectations from council aren't clear as we go through this process. And and I'm not necessarily convinced that every time we hit on the same same number of topics. So to the extent that we can get more input earlier in the process, we'll we'll do a much better job in our budget. To the budget schedule, next slide. There you go. Put it in your packet. The budget schedule, I think the key point here is that this is a relatively straightforward, but very much involved, process. It starts almost the day after the budget the budget's been

Dave Hugg

enacted for the fiscal year working on the next one. Uh but as you can see from the you know from the items on the uh on the schedule, we start about October with getting instructions out uh various kinds of information uh and then it progresses through and and uh to where sometime in May or June uh we deliver a final budget proposal after some hearings and uh uh you know re-examining sort of where we are once we've got some decent numbers about where we ended the prior year. Um This year we're going to try and get the budget to you uh in in uh hopefully in April or May uh a little bit earlier because we tend to run into that, you know, June 20-something or other date that that means we're we're debating and changing things sort of at the end of the day, the end of the process. So, um I wanted to share that with you for your understanding. Next slide. Should just keep on going, past the one that says data. That one. Okay. Um

Dave Hugg

to a large degree, our budget process is is data driven. It's driven by uh you know what we've spent in previous years, what we anticipate in in in current years, what the revenues have been. But we also need to be cognizant of kind of the background in which we're we're working. Dover's been described to me as a a big small city. Uh we're not all that large in terms of, well, actually we're large in terms of land area for Delaware, um but 40,000 or so people is not a is not a big city per se. Um unfortunately, or maybe it's fortunately, we have most of the same issues and problems and opportunities that a larger city has and also the the benefit of still having a lot of small-town character. So, some of the things we look at just to get an idea of of what's happening. Population growth,

Dave Hugg

we're a little over 40,000 people right now, anticipated by the Delaware Population Consortium to reach What is that number? 41.7 something or other um by 2030. Uh we're growing There's a mistake on that chart. We're not growing by 1.7 uh percent a year, we're growing a little less than 1% a year. I don't I'm I must with my fumble fingers type an extra something in there. Um

Dave Hugg

the key point to to this this slide is if you look the kind of it's slow growth. We're not growing very fast. Um the good side of that is we can keep we have a much better chance of keeping up with the demands. The the downside of that is that it slows down the rate of growth in in uh uh potentially revenue-serving functions. Next slide. Want to give you a sense of the general fund versus the total state budget, or total city budget, I mean. Um as you can see, from '22 to '26, our budget has increased from about 1- 165 million to 249 million. That's about a 10% increase in in that 5-year period. So, the cost of doing business is is definitely going up. If you If you look over to the general fund, which makes up a, you know, some uh portion of our of our total revenue Stay where Stay on that same chart, please. Um the general fund sort of in average is 23 25% of of the total uh budget for the city. Um but you notice it's slowly drifting down, and we're I'm estimating that it as a percent of total budget, it'll be around 25% in in 2027. Um the amount of money has has has, you know, grown, but again, very slowly, not at a great at a great rate, and that's that's a a function of the sources of revenue for the general fund.

Dave Hugg

six or seven years, uh we're sort of projecting based on a on a current tax rate extending into '27, uh which would generate somewhere around um you know 3.66 uh no, I'm sorry, um should take which would acknowledge a uh assessed value growth to about 3.66 uh billions of dollars. Um

Dave Hugg

Taxes. Um Much of the general fund, mostly the general fund is made up of of uh taxes, particularly property taxes. Our tax rate's been relatively relatively consistent for the last

Dave Hugg

to remind Council, probably a third to 40% or so of our property in Dover is not taxable. Uh there are some PILOT payments we get from the state and from a couple of our uh nonprofits, but basically, uh we're existing on about, say, 60 to 70% of the total assessed value of the city. Uh if we were able to assess the charges to those, you know to those uh businesses or firms, whatever, uh we would have substantially higher higher revenue on the General Fund side. Um

Dave Hugg

also wanted to sort of point out to you in the little chart, um you know, 30-some percent of uh all the revenues uh come from from property taxes, um with the second largest one being utility transfers uh and then the other enterprise funds. Next slide.

Dave Hugg

Also took a look at transfer taxes. This is the big unknown in our our operations, but it's a a significant amount of money, significant enough to pay close attention to. It's driven in large measure by by the economy. It's driven by the sale of of of properties. Um you know, a significant part of it comes from our ongoing residential and commercial activities, but they don't generate the the uh the significant amount. It's when we have somebody that, you know, buys or sells the Dover Mall or some, you know, some large piece of property to generate and leads to a large amount of money.

Dave Hugg

As you can see, um very hard to predict what that is. It bounces all over the place. I guess the bad news is is last year was down substantially, about half of what it was in in '25. Um there's no way to predict this, and so we just have to sort of pick a number that we think it might work out to and and hope that we're we're uh being too conservative. Next slide. Keep going. Okay.

Dave Hugg

Uh one of the one of the questions we ask ourselves as we go through this process is what is it that we're actually responsible for? What are we supposed to be doing? What's what what are the the duties and and and services that we're charged with? And the secondary question is who makes that decision? I think it's safe to say that that, you know, Council makes the majority of decisions, but we can't ignore the fact that our friends across the street and our friends in Washington send us things to do, tell us what we have to do, how we have to do it. Uh sometimes they help us financially, sometimes they don't. And in many cases, we don't have a choice. Um and and we'll get to that in a little bit.

Dave Hugg

Uh want to point out because we seem to be drifting a little bit towards more social consciousness, more social service programming, um but that's an area that's dominated predominantly by the state and the feds and the nonprofits. So, one of the challenges to us is to kind of figure out where the city fits into, you know, into that broader uh universe of activities.

Dave Hugg

When you um when you ask people kind of what they expect, um the basic things that they they want they want the water to run, they want the sewer to go away, they want the lights to stay on, you know, they want somebody to respond when there's a fire, um they want their building that they live in not to fall down. Those are the kinds of things. They're the bricks and mortar, stuff on the ground. You know, the the phone call in the morning is there's a pothole in front of my house and it's full of water, so it must be a water main break, and and and that and that kind of uh that kind of thing. So, those are those are what people tend to look to us for, but they also ask us to do that effectively and efficiently. Next slide. I I touched on this

City Staff

just a little bit, um, friends across the street, there are a lot of things that they've mandated to us, particularly in the last year or two: the whole reassessment mess and what how that's going to impact how we calculate revenues, how we assess properties. Uh, last year, they they passed an ordinance or a law requiring that, as part of our planning, we we we uh implement certain regulations and restrictions relating to ADA parking requirements. This is one of these this is how you're going to do it orders from the state, but there's no money coming with it. This is we got to do it. Um, we can certainly talk about forever and ever chemicals which is imposed on us by federal and state funds. The NPDES stormwater program. You know, we're we're left to implement one, we're left to figure out how our our citizens pay for it, but somebody else told us what we have to do and potentially could fine us if we don't. This year in the General Assembly, they're looking at a ordinance or law relating to accessory buildings. They're looking at renewable energy and other energy needs.

City Staff

Paul, I don't know, I think the last time you and I looked there were 18 pieces of legislation pending this year in the General Assembly dealing with energy in some form or the other. Fortunately, a lot of them are aimed at DP&L, but there's, you know, we're here trying to run an efficient enterprise fund enterprise program, and somebody else across the street who isn't in the energy business seems to know how how we should be doing it. That's a risk. And then there's others. There's the new DSHA requirements for permitting and zoning. There's the cross-connection control program. The list could go on. These are these are examples of of things that drive our budget process that we may not have a lot of control over. Moving on, one of the one of the things we also took a look at and I'll thank Councilman Anderson for previewing this couple of slides the other night at council meeting.

City Staff

Uh, the powers that the city has come from a number of sources. The first one, and the most important one, are the duties that are set forth in the city charter. And the city charter is state law, the General Assembly passes the charter. And and these are things that we are entitled to do. They're enumerated. Uh, and I'll just touch on a couple of them: abate nuisances, provide fire protection, uh, create city planning and zoning, operate light, power, water plants, etcetera. This is kind of the basic these are our basic responsibilities. And the and the, uh, definitions in the in the in the charter are basically fairly straightforward. You know, we want you to do these kinds of things. Kind of out of order here, I think. Broad powers, yeah. Go Go to the next slide. I jumped ahead of something. Go ahead. Next. There we go.

City Staff

Uh, the second the second area where we get authority is, after the General Assembly, after our charter says, "These are the things you basically must do." Yeah, back off one, please. There you go.

City Staff

Um, there's provision in in the charter in Article II basically says that the city has the authority to adopt ordinances of of every kind, uh, relating to the subject of of running the city. So we can adopt ordinances, those adopted by the council. Uh, they may or may not be state laws, they're predominantly a local local, uh, regulations and authority. There's some overlap, but the council adopts, um, ordinances related to how we govern the city to maintaining peace and order, um, to health, safety, and convenience of the population, um, and so forth, uh, property management and maintenance, those kinds those kinds of things. Now you can do the next slide. Yeah, next slide. Okay.

City Staff

Uh, there's an interesting provision and again, uh, Councilman Anderson raised this the other night. Um, I always I always, you know,

Dave Hugg

kind of refer to this as the sort of 'whatever you want to do' do ordinances or anything else laws. Um and I'll read it to you because it's kind of interesting. In addition to the powers specifically enumerated by statutes in title 22 of the Delaware Code and elsewhere, the City of Dover shall have, shall assume and have all powers which under the Constitution of the state of Delaware it would be competent for the General Assembly to grant by specific enumeration and which are not denied by statute. So basically, we can do anything else we want to do as long as the the the the the General Assembly has has has not said no and as long as we're we're not doing something outside of what would have been uh the state's authority. So we can't have an army or or a navy, something of that nature. Um, but this really is very, very broad latitude and and uh uh it it's kind of, I guess it's probably where we uh if nothing else, where we would we would hang uh ordinances like some of the ones we're considering now that, you know, they're dealing with with uh uh, you know, uh public safety and and what have you. Okay. I'm going to shift gears at this point. Go to the next slide, please.

Dave Hugg

As I indicated to you, um trying to do something a little bit different this year, putting a little bit of more responsibility back on my department heads. Um each of them was given an assignment uh basically look at those six factors as it relates to their department: what their function is, assess how well we're doing it, what they see as challenges, what they see as opportunities, what's important from a budget standpoint, and what do they want the council to tell them, uh or tell us. Um so they're each going to get get 5 minutes. And their assignment was from that set of six considerations, what's the significant, most important thing they want you to go away from from this meeting today. We're going to start see who we're going to start with.

Dave Hugg

my turn says hey what's on here. Um there are slides in your in your in your packet. I do want to say that uh they they got that assignment, but but it was basically do it the way you would like to do it. However you want to present it, they are not edited, they are not, you know, we've had we basically said, "These are your presentations. Make make them clear and and uh, you know, to the point." And we'll start with Central Services, and each of them will be asked to come up as we go uh and address their assignment.

Dave Hugg

So I guess that uh, Mike, you're probably the first one up. And you can advance your slides as they occur, too, as you will. Who got him already? Okay.

Mike Rhodes

All right. Had I've known they were in alphabetical order, I would have changed the name of my department.

Tricia K. Arndt

Can Can I make a suggestion with the logistics? If since there's only four of us in the room from council, if we sit up there, at least then we can look at the audience and the audience can look at us.

Mike Rhodes

I would appreciate that.

Tricia K. Arndt

Are you all amenable to to moving?

Mike Rhodes

All right. Okay. So, um I'm not going to read through each slide. However, uh Central Services, we operate strictly out of the general fund. Um we are the support services for all of the labor services throughout the city. We maintain the vehicles, we maintain the buildings, we provide procurement services, mail services, things of that nature.

Mike Rhodes

With that being said, if you look at the 5,000-ft view, you can see some of the numbers that we put out with these divisions. Um these numbers climb every year, that's one thing I want to emphasize on. There's more work orders in the fleet division, there's more work orders in the facilities division, there's more buildings, there's more cars, there's more people in the city that we're providing mail services and procurement services and things of that nature. With that being said, I would draw your attention to point trees in the individual divisions and departments.

Mike Rhodes

So, staffing has relatively stayed the same, and one of the things that I want to draw attention to is the more vehicles, the more buildings, the more people we have here, the more things we have to support.

Presenter

support, and we're doing that with less less people and less funds. So if we add, just for instance, five vehicles to the police department, that puts a bigger strain on my divisions. They're having to put more time, more effort, and more general fund money into the repair of these vehicles. We currently have the same size buildings that we've had all along that we're trying to cram more vehicles in for repairs, and the same thing with facilities. One of the biggest obstacle obstacles that we've ran into with facilities is on the last slide, um is staff retention and recruitment. Um we've had retirements, we've had transfers, and we've had uh one that left to pursue other opportunities, and we have struggled for the last 6 months to get the applications in to fill these positions. We have luckily been able to fill uh three of the vacated positions. However, two crucial positions, and it's we're not we're we're getting at some applications, but we're not getting very many, and the applications we are getting are underskilled. We're getting applications from entry-level employees that we need to have experience. The experience is just not coming in, and that is a real concern because we're having to budget for avenues of covering these positions in their absence. So, one specifically, when you talk about the HVAC systems in these buildings, we just invested a ton of money into these HVAC systems in all these different buildings to get everything up to par. Well, one of these positions is the maintenance of these HVACs. So, we're having to subcontract that out to an actual contractor to come in and do the filter changes and the cleanings and things of that nature on these systems, which that money is extra on top of what we're already budgeting for. So, it's actually costing us money not filling these positions. And with the newer technologies, I'm going to switch back over to to fleet and procurement. With the newer technologies coming out, I see it because I'm a mechanic by trade. You look at the vehicles in on the roads today. They have completely changed the platforms in these in these vehicles. You're no longer seeing the eight cylinders and the six cylinders. You're seeing them converting horsepower from four-cylinder engines and turbochargers and things of that nature. All these components are unknown outcomes. We don't know how these engines are going to play out in 5 years. We don't know how they're going to hold up in, you know, 10 years. And so, trying to budget for the maintenance and repair of these vehicles, also the training for our technicians, the available, you know, uh space in our garages for these vehicles to be worked on, these are all variables that are changing. Um the biggest thing to keep in mind, again, staff, we do not have the inflow of applicants putting in for these positions that we need to be able to sustain this new technology. Outside of building space and staffing, those are my major concerns. Um as the the rest of the city grows, we need to ensure that we're looking at that, you know, if we're adding vehicles, if we're adding buildings, if we're adding tasks, all that's going to require training, staff, and building space. Any questions? Very good.

Tricia K. Arndt

So, you identified the challenges, um, what are your thoughts on solutions? What what would you like to see moving forward?

Presenter

The solutions are, as far as staffing goes, I do not have an answer. I I cannot explain why, other than the competition in the private sector is pretty brutal. Um, I know ev- Yes. Um, automotive shops and carpenters and HVAC technicians are pretty much making double what we're

City Staff

they're offering in the private sect- Um, as far as building space, you're talking massive amounts of money, which we have been at a deficit for the last couple years trying to, you know, be as frugal as possible with our funds. So the CIP planning on that side of the house has been kind of pushed down the road. Um, but it's getting to the point to where we're going to have to start looking at that ugly price tag. And we're we're probably talking in the millions of dollars.

Council Member

Thank you.

City Staff

You're welcome.

Fred A. Neil

Move to the next slide. Okay. Customer Customer Services, I'd like Andrea Griffith to come up. Again, you're limited to five minutes, focusing importantly on on what your most critical challenges are. Okay. And Andrea is probably, I guess, I'm not sure, the newest department head, but the newest in terms of people being on board. So, welcome.

Andrea Griffith

Thank you.

Fred A. Neil

You're on.

Andrea Griffith

Okay. Good morning, Mayor and members of Council. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. I came into this role with a strong commitment to public service and a genuine passion for serving people, both the residents of the city and the employees that I lead. I believe effective government is built on clear decision-making, strong training, and leaders who empower their teams with the tools they need to succeed. As you consider departmental needs in the upcoming budget, I want to highlight a few structural gaps that directly affect operational effectiveness, risk management, and service delivery. First, there was no formal onboarding or training framework for this position. Critical institutional knowledge is not documented or centralized, which creates a reliance on individual memory rather than systems. From a governance perspective, this presents continuity and compliance risks and limits my ability to model the level of leadership and informed decision-making that I expect of my team. Second, some essential subject matter expertise remained siloed outside of my department. Access to that information has been inconsistent, which has hindered my ability to assess training needs, cross-train for coverage, and establish standard- standardized processes. Training is a core leadership function, and without consistent access to information, it becomes difficult to lead decisively and develop staff effectively. Third, there are role clarity challenges within the department. I currently supervise an employee who previously served in an interim leadership capacity. Without clearly defined boundaries and expectations, this creates confusion in authority, slows implementation, and complicates accountability, all which impact team performance and morale. Additionally, a considerable amount of leadership time has been diverted toward responding to internal matters that do not advance operational goals. That time would be better spent on staff development, process improvement, and ensuring high-quality customer service for our residents. My intent is not to revisit past dynamics, but to ensure that the city is positioned for success going forward. To support strong leadership, effective training, sound decision-making, I am requesting support in three key areas: funding that supports training and professional development, resources to

Female Speaker

document and standardized procedures to protect institutional knowledge, and clear governance and reporting structures to promote accountability and efficiency. With these supports in place, I am confident the department can operate at a higher level, strengthen leadership capacity, and continue delivering responsive, people-centered service to our community.

Female Speaker

The slides that I have created is an oversight of my department, what our service embarks, and all of the, uh, staff responsibilities. Um, I was hoping you guys were probably going to be a- given a copy of this, but if you would like me to, I can still go through the slides if you would like me to. Okay, perfect. All right, with all that said, I conclude. Thank you.

Andre M. Boggerty

Yes, uh could you repeat I I I didn't get the the other two? The first one was funding and training for staff development. What what were the other two?

Female Speaker

Of the three key areas, sir?

Andre M. Boggerty

Of the three key areas, yes.

Female Speaker

Okay, yes, sir. Funding that supports training and professional development, resources to document and standardized procedures to protect institutional knowledge, and clear governance and reporting structures to promote accountability and efficiency.

Andre M. Boggerty

Thank you.

Female Speaker

You're welcome. Yes, sir.

David L. Anderson

Thank you. Uh I wanted- thank you for, uh, joining Team Dover. I have a question that's related to one of your slides, and it's is, um, as as we are in the, um, a nice cold winter, and of course, uh, nationally, uh, heating, electric rates, etc. have gone up, which happens usually when you have a cold winter, um, and, uh, and there's a lot more competition for, uh, for federal aid for, you know, for bill. Uh, have we seen any particular issues or problems, um, with, uh, that we need to be aware of regarding, uh, past dues, anything that's, uh, you know, that that could, uh, are people, uh, being able to adjust? Are are people having issues or or--

Female Speaker

Um, through my experience, I used to work as a financial coach, um, and also through gaining knowledge through this position, there's a history and a pattern of people who consistently do the same things, and that cycle is not going to change. Um, sometimes with public programs that help, it helps, but it also hinders at the same time in the respect of accountability. So yes, there have been hardships, um, with consumers, but I have been able to, uh, work with people. One thing that I advocate and communicate to my team is, um, I understand that people always say, you know, to be compassionate, but for me, I like to take it a step further and I advocate for people to empathize. And to empathize is to communicate in a way and a manner that you're putting yourself in that person's shoes. So not only are you listening to them and hearing their hardships and the reasons why they can't pay their bills, but also being solutions-oriented to be able to give them the right resources and tools to be able to break the cycle and to be able to f- uh, find that foundation and that basis to be able to--

Customer Service Manager

afford afford their bills and not have these, um, inconsistencies when the weather changes or, um, when the weather gets super cold or when it gets super hot. I encourage my team to communicate to people like, we take payments 24/7. There's no limit on how many times you can make a payment. You can put $10 on there. You can put $20 on there. Anything extra that you have is going to create a basis of stability so that they don't go into the cycle of, I'm facing disconnection because I haven't paid on my bill. Um, just listening to people, advocating for people, and then, again, aligning them with the correct resources. And I always try to make sure that I'm aware of any community resources are that are available, and I keep an open door for those agencies to communicate with me to be able to meet customer needs.

David L. Anderson

Thank you. So, is there is it pretty much the the same as, uh, as normal, or has there been any particular increase?

Customer Service Manager

Well, I can't really say if there's any increase because I have not been here a complete year to know if there's been, um, an influx. I think it's just the the standard norm from what I get from my team. Um, one thing that they call out is, this person has had a history of XYZ. Um, that's the most consistent thing that I hear, but as far as numbers, if there's a particular influx because of the economy, I I can't really speak to that.

David L. Anderson

Or namely the weather, but but anyway, thank you.

Customer Service Manager

You're welcome.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Good morning.

Customer Service Manager

Good morning.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

I wanted to thank you personally for some of the folks that I have referred to you who have called my office, because one lady actually called me back and thanked me for, uh, referring her to you because she said that's the first time that she has ever dealt with anyone who showed any type of compassion and understanding toward the issues that she was facing. And it's very refreshing to have you in that position, and I want to thank you publicly.

Customer Service Manager

Uh, so, it's interesting that you say interpersonal conflict. Um, and as you said, I wouldn't mention any individuals or anything like that and because this certainly is not the decorum or platform for that. But I certainly be open to have a discussion in a different arena. But I think the solution is being centric and focused on our purpose and our job, which is to help the city to be a better place and to serve our citizens

Customer Service Manager

Thank you. I immensely appreciate that. Thank you so much.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Uh, thank you. Um, good good morning, and sorry I'm a little late, had a meeting last night, but

Customer Service Manager

Good morning.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Um, I heard you sort of mention, um, a lot of the, you know, some of the positive things that's that's going on and, and some of the need for, um, modification and adjustment and strength. Um, could you elaborate a little bit more on the interpersonal conflict, um, not per se who and and and what who, or, you know, but more so to the point of what do you think that could be, um, an improvement plan to help strengthen the interpersonal conflict that sounds like is perceived? What in in your, um, level of expertise do you think needs to take place? Or how can City Council support you, or the City Manager support you in the initiative of, um, resolving some of those interpersonal conflicts so that, uh, you can reach your the department can reach their full potential when meeting the your organizational goals?

Female Speaker

it's the best way that we can. Um that has always been my mindset and my focus, because I not only work here, but I live here. So I take pride in being able to help the the community that I live in be more collaborative and succeed and be one of those cities that people call out, say, "Hey, I want to live there because of XYZ." So I think in order to have that uh support is again, it goes back to uh consistent training and expectations across the board, um and documenting institutional knowledge where everyone has access. Where even if someone um that I collaborate with outside of my department, for instance, uh electric admin, I collaborate with Paul often, if he needed guidance or something, I could be able to share institutional knowledge with him so that he can appropriate it for his department.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

In regards to the institutional knowledge, um do we currently have like a Are you speaking to the point of maybe a database where information that you have on this topic he may be able to tap into and then elaborate on a uh one-on-one conversation or a face-to-face conversation, or just in general like just being able to communicate with that individual um and they're receptive to to giving feedback? I'm

Female Speaker

Um something that is formalized. So for instance, in my previous positions and experience, I used something that was called SharePoint, and it was organized um based off of naming conventions, uh categorized by certain um areas. It It It's something that would be strategic based off of a department, but at least it would be a consistent format. Like if you're looking for XYZ, then this is what you would go to. But just something across the board where it kind of looks consistent for everyone.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Thank you very much for answering my question. I yield. Thank you very much.

Female Speaker

Thank you all.

Fred A. Neil

Next slide.

Paul Waddell

Good afternoon, or actually good morning. Um is this yours? Is that yours? Okay. Uh thank you for the opportunity to come before you and speak. Um I I apologize for all the language in these uh slides. I I uh had intended to uh send it to Dave and we'd bounce it back a little bit and clean it up, but I just kind of spilled my guts on the paper. So, that's that's kind of where we were. Um, yes, no, they were not edited, so there's some comments I apologize to Jeff for comment a reference to him in there. Um so our goal um in our function is provide reliable, efficient, adequate energy to residents, businesses in Dover's franchised service area. Uh and our mission, which I think we do very well, is to support the current and future growth of all residential, commercial, industrial, and defense customers we serve by safely providing reliable and affordable electricity, being economic and environmental stewards, and continuously looking for areas of improvement. Um, the last little section of that, areas of improvement, um is where the money lies. And uh that's uh unfortunately what uh what causes us a lot of consternation uh is is in the budget process of trying to implement some things. Uh in the 5,000-ft view, uh primarily um if I look at uh If you look at the third and the sixth bullet, uh those are the ones that I'll kind of address

Presenter

us. Uh preparing for the future is vital for our utility. Uh over the last six years, uh load growth across the nation has been relatively flat. Um and the projection uh a decade out was going to be pretty much no load growth. Everything was just going to be calm and be the way that it was. Uh with the onset of data centers, uh AI, uh large load customers, which was a a phrase that wasn't thrown around too often in the industry uh 5 years ago aside from maybe an industrial load. Um now that's calm. Uh every uh municipality, IUE, whoever uh is going to face the challenge of a large load customer potentially coming into their footprint. Uh with that becomes a challenge to us because we just don't see it as another meter that's running that's generating revenue, we also see it as an expense because now we have to uh allot in our budget for the capacity for that person. So our budget increases even though we gain more revenue, so it's not like it just kind of flattens out. Um we also have um a space limitation on our system as it's currently designed uh that's going to limit me from taking some of these customers in uh just because in the event of an emergency, I have my water hose at my connection with Delmarva Power is only so big. I can only take in so much power to distribute through our grid, and uh, you know, Dave and I had had a conversation with one developer that was looking for 200 MW load. Our peak load at any our highest peak load over the last six years is 163, so they're looking to come in and, you know, more than double what we, you know, what we have been serving. Uh that's a huge lift for us, especially as a small municipality. Um, of course, I told them that I couldn't help him. Um, and, you know, we'll we'll see where it goes from there. Uh, the the last or the sixth bullet point is the market. So, to kind of add on to what I said before, it's not just the meter spinning, it's also an expense that I have to account for on my my budget for capacity. Um, reading in there, you can see we were at $29 to $35 a megawatt-hour in the very near past, uh, and now we're at, I believe the last number was what, $333 per megawatt-hour. Um, that's that's a huge increase, and this is something that's completely uncontrollable by us. Uh, we are just in a purely reactionary position on this. Uh, we work with The Energy Authority to try to offset some of those impacts by long-term hedges uh, where we go out and we purchase power on 5-10 year contracts at a reasonable rate, you know, being and the last few hedges that we've gotten have been in the $60 per megawatt-hour range. Um, so that's that's a pretty good savings. So if we can hedge at our 70 to 80% target,

Unknown Speaker

That's 5 minutes.

Presenter

Wow! Okay. So if we could stay at that, then uh we'll we'll be we'll be better off. Um assessment-wise, how are we doing? Uh we've received many certificates, awards uh from APPA uh stating that we are doing what we need to do uh to be a reliable energy provider.

Paul Waddell

uh we're meeting our goals in safety. Um and where do we go from here? Um that's a great question. Uh how do we confront this challenge? Uh do we build another thermal unit? Do we uh you know, like a VanSant CT turbine? Uh that has its own set of challenges. Do we look at solar or some sort of renewable? That has its own set of challenges because we're kind of hamstrung by space in the city. Um so I went quick through five minutes. I guess that's it. Give me some questions.

Fred A. Neil

Yeah, Paul.

Paul Waddell

Yes, sir.

Fred A. Neil

Um I was managed to take the whole 79 pages and reduce it into three for the entire presentation. What I have under you is one of those three pages is yours. And I think it's because of the demands that the public simply doesn't understand. You've already touched upon it. We don't control the market. We have a great crew, and I think what has happened through this this cold freeze period as an example, when it's bad, they're still out there. They're doing everything they can. Could not be more uh happy or or uh uh praise you enough in terms of what they've done. And that the future that and and and people say, "Well, you can't charge that much. You can't charge that much." But we have to, because we we can't control what the market is demanding of us to get the power, and then you have the cost of getting the power to the people. They just don't understand. So, I I and the other thing is and and concerns me is the fact that if we cut the margin too close, the cost of er getting or obtaining the uh capital projects is going to cost us more. In the long run, the the the taxpayer is going to pay more than that.

Fred A. Neil

So this is the difficult part of trying to balance what we've just heard from you. And that's why I have so much of this that I basically captured in my Cliff Notes and in in my cheat sheet just to see what's happening. So it's a compliment for you, and I think uh one question that came to me is we made a a uh considerable investment in the Smart Energy Program. How many people have taken advantage of that to cut their electric rates? Do we have any figures to show how many people have accessed that program which is designed to save them money so that they're not spending as much on basically energy, on the electric?

Paul Waddell

Uh Councilwoman Arndt and I actually had a a small conversation about that in the um caucus room before before this started. Um I told her that I'm going to share the latest monthly update uh with Council. Uh I don't have those numbers right off the top of my head, uh but I know it was 5 to 6% of their goal uh has been met. Um so that's uh that's according to them, that is a wonderful thing uh because it's really kind of catching on. Uh if you recall, as I told Councilwoman Arndt, if you recall when I briefed it and Tom Coyle came in here, the first year it's going to be pretty slim pickings, uh but they're pretty excited about the uh the way that it's been accepted in. Uh and she has uh Carolyn, who's our area rep, has meetings set up with DelTech, uh Delaware State, and Wilmington um coming up. So she's going to get ahold of them and and uh and try to get them on board with some energy savings. And then as far as resid-

Paul Waddell

...there's been several people who have taken advantage of the recycling program, uh, and we've also, uh, worked with a local electrical- electrician, and, uh, with Efficiency Smart, they've installed smart thermostats in 10 Habitat for Humanity homes, uh, to try to help them with the- with their energy, uh...

Fred A. Neil

Well, I don't think there's any question we have to get the word out even more so that there's help out there. So when people are complaining, they have a chance to basically lower their electric usage, which cuts the what the what their cost is. And again, it's what's happened has happened across the the entire nation in terms of the cost. I thank you, Paul, and I thank- I thank your crews. Every single time they go out, I make sure they- And I hope that no more squirrels get get killed in the process.

Paul Waddell

Oh, did you know by the way, sidebar, uh January 20th is National Squirrel Day?

Fred A. Neil

[laughter]

Paul Waddell

I saw that and I thought of you.

Fred A. Neil

Save the squirrels. [laughter] I yield.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Uh good morning, uh Paul.

Paul Waddell

Morning.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Mr. Waddell. The, uh, meters, is that still on the front of of mind for for fiscal year '27?

Paul Waddell

Yes, it is. It is, uh, it was put in here. Um, AMI is a will be a huge stepping stone, uh, for us to get more into the energy efficient, um, demand response type of programming. Um, with our current meters, all we do is we just receive. Uh, with demand response, we can send and receive. I mean with the AMI meters, we could send and receive, and we can allow the customers to have different programs like pay-as-you-go. "Hey, I got $150. Um, this is what I can afford for my for my power bill." Um, and then they can put that on an account, and it could be programmed into the meter. Um, then they can, you know, when they start getting to a critical point, they'll get an alert. "Hey, you're doing this." So that could create, like, uh, Andre said, that could create a change in philosophy and a change in habit and a change in behavior. Um, AMI will also allow us to, uh, it will reduce some of our costs by not having a, uh, employee in a vehicle go out and manually do a disconnect for a property. They could push a button, they could be off. They could push a button, and they could be back on. Um, so the customer service aspect of it is huge. Uh, it could also tie into an outage management system, which will give our system operators, um, who are there all day long, 24/7, uh, it could give them, you know, a couple of seconds of head start, cuz right now we rely on, if it's just a small outage, we rely on the phone call from the public. Uh, and then they have to kind of piece together, "Hey, where did this start? Where do I need to send my crews? Where do I need to dispatch them to?" With an OMS system based off AMI, we could look and say, "This meter was the first meter that tripped. This is the first one that went red. What's that nearest transformer? What's that nearest switch? What's that nearest fuse?" And then that will make them more efficient. Um, and with, uh, as as Dave mentioned earlier with some of the legislation that's going through the state, uh, one of those is a time-of-use study, a rate study, which is basically it's, uh, from 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m., you have one rate, from 10:00 a.m. to 1:00, you have...

Paul Waddell

another rate. During the peak time, uh you have the highest rate because that's the rate that costs the city the most to be able to provide. And then as it goes through the nighttime, you get the lower rates. Um we can't do that without AMI. Um you just you just can't do it. There's no way. Um so that's that needs to that's still my priority alongside of uh transformer replacements. Uh and those, you know, unfortunately, those are big ticket items. Um when I first started here 10 years ago, AMI system was $4 million. Now, I'm budgeting seven. So, it's almost doubled in you know, doubled in 10 years. Um and as Mike alluded to, you know, the longer we kick things down the road, it's just going to be more expensive, you know. Um so, yeah.

Brian E. Lewis

Thank you for that, good answer. I appreciate that, thank you.

Paul Waddell

Yes, sir.

Tricia K. Arndt

So, what what can we as council do to be more proactive and less reactive in terms of regulating or um for new large load customers? Um for instance, New Castle County is proposing an ordinance specific to data centers, and that came about as a result of a data center being proposed, several being proposed. Um what are some things or concerns that we as council should be addressing in in your opinion?

Paul Waddell

I I am in the early stages of drafting some sort of ordinance not only based off of New Castle's, but um also off of national. I've reached out to the same people that do our rate study to ask them for some help. Um if I get that drafted up and before you, pass it, you know? And then uh that that would at least give us um some some uh ammunition to potentially push back on them. Um another piece of legislation that was brought up um was potentially putting the municipalities under the Public Service Commission for the large load aspect. Um of course, now that we're back in DEMEC, they're lobbying on our behalf to try to put a stop to that. Uh we don't want to be under Public Service Commission. Uh their whole goal is for regulated utilities, which is not what we are. Um so, it would be better for us to maintain control of how we manage what gets connected to our grid. Um I already have to get approval from Delmarva before a large load customer connects to my system, and Delmarva has to get approval from the PSC. So, it's almost redundant. Um you know, just another step and another cost. Um and FYI, Delmarva for the for you to get in their cluster, their study for a large load customer, a new large load customer, even if it connects to me, they still have to go through Delmarva because it's a strain on their system, um it's a million dollars. So, they've established a very, very steep cost, and you've got to put some skin in the game in order to get into their queue. Uh and I think that was a lesson learned from the whole PJM interconnection from a few years back where uh renewable developers just flooded the queue with all these potentials just to try to get approval and use it as a marketing tool. Um so, hey. Um aside from that, if there's any type of ordinance or anything that comes forward um uh on when it comes to the budget, when the budget is presented, um there might be some scary numbers. Uh but as Council President Neil said, you know, it's it's some of that money needs to be it just needs to be spent. Um but, we're we're working on trying to to keep it in line

Paul Waddell

with the way it's been the past couple of years, but I got $333 per megawatt, and I got to balance that against keeping the system up and running, implementing new technology and replacing aging equipment. And it's it's a it's a challenging task.

Tricia K. Arndt

Thank you for that, that answer, and look forward to seeing that ordinance.

Paul Waddell

Yes, ma'am.

David L. Anderson

Paul, you want to touch quickly on the status of VanSant right now, unless—

Paul Waddell

Oh, did you I I think, uh Councilman Sudler—

David L. Anderson

I'm sorry.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Yes, thank you very much, thank you for recognizing me. Um, just maybe about three questions. Uh, one, uh Paul, in regards to innovative or innovative approaches or trends um for reduction of utility user fees for our constituents. What is out there? What How can How can we take advantage of some of the trends that the municipalities Other municipalities are using to keep the user uh utility fees down? I heard you mention something to the to the point of generating or maybe generating some some power. Um, what I'm thinking of is a a field where we can have um like solar panels, right, and and I know uh for a fact that there have been some individuals who are interested in selling their land so that we can, you know, produce that. Uh, they're not in the city, they're in the county, but close within proximity. So, in other words, what is your view on that matter? Do you think that could help? Do we need to be look Are other municipalities us- using that? Uh, and and what If not, what are some of the other trends that we could be using or creating, in your expertise and knowledge in your field, um that we should possibly be taking a look at?

Paul Waddell

Um, for the solar question, if it's outside the city, of course, they fall under Kent County. And for utility-scale um renewable projects, it has to go through DP&L and it has to go through PJM. Um, and that that changing process has really kind of slowed down um kind of whittled away the projectionists and has really put into play the people who are actually ready to put shovels in the dirt and get ready to go. Um, there's still bottlenecks in the supply chain. Um, what We had a call yesterday and they're saying it's uh, you know, current prices for a megawatt of solar in the ground is $2 million. So, I mean, if you're looking at a 300-megawatt solar field, $600 million. I mean, in today's uh today's age, with the interest rates the way they are, um profitability is probably not going to be there on the developer side. But then the cost option to the end user is probably not going to be there either uh because of the the price of the energy that they would have to charge to to make up um the the their invest- Um, concerning um your your next the next part of the question. Um, I think the AMI system um would give the customers real-time access to their consumption um and they could they could see, you know, they could look at it and say, "Whoa, holy cow, I'm using that much energy right now. Maybe I need to Oh, look at that." You know, there's five other lights on in the house, or maybe if I bump my thermostat, you know, up a degree, down a degree, or whatever. Um, you know, they could they could see that that real time. You know, other than, "I'm just not going to I like my house at 70 degrees, I don't want it at 69, I don't want it at 7-"

Paul Waddell

21, but then the complaints still come in that, you know, my electric bill's too high. You know, make a 1-degree adjustment in your thermostat, and then maybe you could save $25 a month. You know, it just depends. Um and I'm I'm bracing for a lot of complaints uh when the next bills go out because, you know, even though it it's you you didn't touch your thermostat at and it it maintains at 65°, when it's 30° outside, your you know, your heater works this hard. When it's 9° outside, your heater has to work this hard. So even though you never changed it your your settings, you're still going to pay more because it's just working.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Thank you. Um one last question. Um sort of ties in. Um I know there's state or federal aid, right? So, do you have like a subdivision, or do you have someone that tries to keep up with state and federal aid or opportunities for us to our municipalities to say, "Hey, we need we need some additional funds so we can keep our user utility or utility user fees down for our shared constituents?" Because it's not just our local uh, you know,

Roy Sudler, Jr.

constituents, but it's also state and county and also the county. Uh do you have partnerships? And and if so, have you seen um any impact from the tariffs, taxes? Has that also um impacted our capability to bring down the cost for our constituents when it comes to utility user fees? So one, has tariff taxes sort of impacted how has it impacted, you know, um our capability to keep it down, if so? And and the other part is, do you have someone that is constantly paying attention to opportunities for us to gain uh revenue through the state, the county, uh or federal um funding programs?

Paul Waddell

Uh the answer to that question is me. Um I keep (laughs) I get a I get a ton of emails, and I and we also being members of APPA, uh being members of DEMEC, being members of DEED, um uh there those are all organizations that supply us with information if we're on their their email list of grant opportunities. Um I uh yeah, I try to I try to keep my nose to the to the ground on that, or ear to the ground on that. Um but the uh the tariffs and the taxes, um our prices for our material is coming down. Um it it is coming down um because I think the majority of the material that we purchase is made in the United States. Uh we recently started purchasing with COVID when we couldn't get a lot of material, we did start getting some of our smaller transformers from uh South Korea uh simply because they had a good price and they could get it to us. Um but they've worked out. Um I have I would have to go back and look at that each at that individual and see if we've seen any impact on that, but I've seen a downward trend in some of our material uh from the peaks that it's been uh that it was. Um so I'm I'm not seeing a whole lot of impact, but I could I could definitely look into it.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Thank you. And and do you think that if City Council move to um have uh have you to um hire some elves to help you? (laughs) I'm just joking.

Paul Waddell

Yeah, exactly.

Robin R. Christiansen

That was good. That was good. That was good. It took me a second, but I got it. Yeah, that's good.

Paul Waddell

No, uh when we when we did have uh Lisa, Lisa who was here as the grant writer, she was she she was awesome. Yep. Yeah, she uh she really she was key in us getting the uh appropriations money for the substation. Um she threw a whole bunch of opportunities to us, uh which we applied for uh and we unfortunately we didn't get. Uh also with DEMEC, um they work with AMP and uh American Municipal Power, and they are reaching out to me um pretty regularly about opportunities that may fit inside what we need. A lot of the stuff I see now is grid grid modernization, um which the most of that stuff is not really applicable to us because we don't meet the type of the requirement for the type of utility that uses that type of grid modernization like reclosers and all that. We We just don't We don't cover a large aspect of land like a like a co-op. You know, co-op runs from one end of the state to the other end of the state, so them having reclosers and, you know, that type of grid modernization stuff would be a lot more beneficial. For us, we have a bunch of short feeders, so. Thank you.

Andre M. Boggerty

Uh Mr. Mayor, uh Dr. Sudler, you stole my shtick.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

I owe you another one.

Andre M. Boggerty

Uh Mr. Waddell, once again, compliments on uh the sustainability of our electric system uh and your quick action the other day on something that that needed to be taken care of. Like to remind everyone something uh of something that was said by the city manager as we started out. Uh many years ago, uh people on this council realized that the city uh was the mecca for non-profits and state buildings and things like that. Property uh assessments is like at 58%, um so they came up with the enterprise funds. Our bills that we have generate revenues in lieu of the taxes that we collect. Why? Because those non-taxable properties, everybody flushes, everybody leads the lights on, and all that other happy stuff, so it generates the shortfall in taxes that we collect. Uh I don't know if this is the appropriate place to say this, but I use this every time that I talk, the property taxes in the city of Dover that we collect on the 58% of the taxable properties does not even cover the police department's budget. So I salute you for uh the efforts of making sure that somebody leaves their lights on and and keeps their heat up a little bit more than they should, but they should be reminded that your electric bill is consumer-driven. I go behind my wife, who I don't know why she wants to have the house at 78°, to me 65 is terrific, um and I turn all the lights off and the television off behind her and my grandchildren when they're over. But um my big question for you is is can you quick give us an overview of us rejoining DEMEC? We made the very foolish mistake of stepping out, and I think that there is safety in numbers, so can you give me a quick overview of that? And the other thing is I'm on the Governor's sustainabi- uh uh Utility Sustainability Committee, and we are looking at small nuclear uh entities as a possibility, safe uh generation things. But would you support, and this is my last question and then I'll shut up, would you support us putting in place, because we've had some inquiries about data centers coming to the city of Dover, that we put an ord-

Brian E. Lewis

in place that they maintain their own electric to operate that center so they don't vampire from our residents and our other customers we already have that don't use large amounts of electric utilities that data centers use. Thank you.

Paul Waddell

So the to the uh data center question, um, yes, I do support mandating. Uh that is a common theme across all the ordinances that I've seen uh is if they come into town they have to have uh their their own generation. Um you know, and then that puts it that puts the onus on them to handle DNREC with air permits, with everything um to, you know, that's that's an extra expense. Uh is it a deterrent? You could say that, but as a utility person, it's also a safety net, you know, because I'm not I'm not having to supply them all the time. Uh but I I still have to have the capacity on my system to support them should they should their generation fail. Uh and therefore, I have a sizing restraint. Um did that answer that portion?

Paul Waddell

Okay. For the uh small nuclear reactor, um it has not quite gotten its footing yet and running. Um it's still extremely expensive. I put some I put some estimates in my in my uh slides there. Um you're looking at 8.4 to 17 billion. I don't think the ratepayers would support that. Um and that's, you know, 1 to 1.2 to 1.9 GW of energy. Um that would more than cover us uh, and it would give us the ability to sell sell it back uh out to somebody, but that's quite an investment.

Brian E. Lewis

Would that be would that be something that would be workable for DEMEC members to join together to do for the benefit of

Paul Waddell

Maybe. Yeah, I mean it could it could be mentioned uh and and discussed. Uh but, you know, I mean a lot of them are smaller net revenue than we are, so it would still be, you know, Dover would carry a lot of that weight probably and, you know, depending on where it would be and and all that logistics. Um but no, do I think it's a great idea? Um I think it, you know, it meets the carbon carbon-free, um zero emissions, no fossil fuel. It makes that crowd happy um and uh, you know, it's it's the most expensive form of energy production right now uh mainly because it's it's uh it's so new. Um but, you know, from what I've read about it, it it's it's pretty neat. I like it, uh but I do you know, I like nice things. Any other questions? Yes, sir?

Roy Sudler, Jr.

This is going the statement here is in honor of uh City Councilman Bill Hare, may he rest in peace. And uh it's true for me, I don't know if it's true for my other colleagues, but he used to say uh when he first got on the council, he was told that the electric that we, you know, bring in, the revenue that we bring in, is our cash cow. And uh and he he was one of the first ones to tell me that, so when I first got on council, the revenue from the electric department is our cash cow. Don't know if that's true or not, but you know, that's that's how he always used to say, so to honor him, I brought this.

Paul Waddell

Times are a little different, uh but

Paul Waddell

Uh, I've been on council before.

Andre M. Boggerty

Yep, that's all right.

Andre M. Boggerty

But, but thank you. Thank you for educating us though.

Paul Waddell

And uh to I I didn't forget what you said. Uh, VanSant this weekend, um, through the storm, uh, we've managed to run uh 40 hours. Um, and some of the pricing was uh, uh exceptionally nice. Uh, so, uh, yeah we're we're once once all the final numbers are squared away, um, I think we would have uh profited very nicely for having that unit sitting over there uh, and those guys uh doing all that work. Uh, and a shout out to the Mayor for uh his connections with the Governor's office on Monday uh to try to facilitate us getting some oil uh for the unit. So we uh we we had a I had a scary situation going on and uh we managed to to get back on top and we are the tank is officially full now, so that's a good thing.

Fred A. Neil

Mr. Anderson, you had a question.

David L. Anderson

Thank you. Um I wanted to uh ask about generation capacity. Uh you touched on it in in some ways, but uh what we what are we looking at? I and then in your slides you talked about uh some more traditional generation as a possibility, um. Um are there any partnerships? I know, you know, there's been talk forever about uh uh the people at Garrison adding a um a generator there. We've, in the past, had a partnership. I mean I'm I'm just curious is there anything online the next 5 years that we need to be thinking about?

Paul Waddell

Um, we want more capacity. Um, the pricing right now for a thermal unit, like another VanSant, um, is again, I put an estimate in there for that that's it's very high. Um, and you add to that that we don't have a firm gas pipeline uh coming in, so it would be basically a peaking unit just like VanSant is. Um, so you weigh the you weigh the pros and cons of is it worth spending 20, 30, 40, 50 million for a unit that might sit there and run, you know, 100 hours a year. Uh, granted we would get capacity payments for it. Um, running on oil, we would have the ability to island the city, um, depending on the size of the unit, uh which would eliminate uh if the peninsula went dark, then it would eliminate um our residents, our customers from going in the dark. Um, so we we are exploring that with Energy Authority. Uh we had a phone call yesterday about uh potential uh small store solar facility, um, somewhere in the city. Uh, so we're, you know, we are looking at things, but keeping the keeping the dollar signs in mind is is the challenge.

David L. Anderson

I have a question regarding solar. Um is there if we looked at potential for and how would it impact this revenue-wise if we had more partnership to do things like DelTech has if uh if, you know, shopping centers etc. um uh did more solar in instead of

Andre M. Boggerty

necessarily taking up land that we need for bringing uh economic activity, development, affordable housing. If we use, if we incentivized um, you know, more covered parking lots, more rooftop solar, um what would that look like?

Paul Waddell

Um, that is uh the rooftop—I mean, the rooftop solar is an expense. Uh, the parking lot solar is uh two to three times the expense expense. Uh, mainly because of the structures uh that have to be built, the foundation work, all that stuff. Um, so it we, over the last year, year and a half, we've been working with uh TEA to do a feasibility study of all the city-owned property um available of large enough space that we could possibly put a solar field or a solar array. Uh, so our thought was if we could pepper the city with, you know, 10, 12 1-megawatt solar arrays, then we can get the same output that we have out of Sun Park and really not eat up all that land. Um, but feasibility um of where their locations are with our transmission lines narrowed it down to I believe eight. Uh, and then of that eight, um there would be um potential clashes with residents uh because it might be a park. Uh, it might, you know, it could be Schutte Park, it could be the park out at uh um over by Mayfair or the the space over by Mayfair. Um, so it we we really got it down to just, you know, one, maybe two, uh and um

Paul Waddell

our our actual next step, we have a meeting next week uh that we'll discuss with them about uh what our next step is and, you know, our appetite for that um going forward.

Paul Waddell

But that putting in 3 megawatts of solar, that's going to offer us a discount on our um purchases in real time. Uh, it's going to affect our peak load, it'll affect our capacity amounts that we have to purchase, and, you know, it it could shield us from um having to account for and hedge for that that energy. Um, we won't get a whole lot in PJM for capacity from it, because solar's solar's unreliable, you know, and I think it was what, 4%?

Unknown Speaker

4%.

Paul Waddell

4% of a solar field uh on non-tracking and 8% uh on tracking. So like right now, we used to get 10 megawatts for or 8 megawatts for Sun Park on our off our capacity requirements, now we get 1, you know. So we got 10 megawatts of solar out there uh in theory, but we're getting 1 megawatt from credit from PJM for it, and it's just because over time, the renewables are not a reliable source of consistent power. Uh, and that's that's driven uh the price of energy up, unfortunately, you know. The the baseload units have retired, and PJM is—I have a note down here uh that the last three years, every auction in PJM has beat the previous year in price, um and PJM has consistently fell short of its capacity targets. So what that says is PJM doesn't have enough capacity to run demand, you know, and a lot of that is is off of data centers.

Andre M. Boggerty

Okay. Um, can you—

Brian E. Lewis

A quick thing.

Robin R. Christiansen

Quick question, yeah, meeting before it was still here tonight.

Brian E. Lewis

I know. Shh. This is important, though. So, well, my question is not that it's important. PJM, did Pennsylvania actually back out? Is that true or uh That's Pennsylvania, Jersey, Maryland.

Paul Waddell

No, no. I think Penn- I think Pennsylvania backed out of RGGI.

Brian E. Lewis

Oh, out of RGGI, okay. Thank you.

Fred A. Neil

Mr. Lewis.

Brian E. Lewis

Yeah, so I have two questions for you, sir. My first question is, um, and I don't know if this has been asked already, but uh, have you explored, um, nuclear energy?

David L. Anderson

Yes, it was asked. It was, but go ahead.

Paul Waddell

Uh, yeah, and we uh it's the cost is extremely high. Um, the the the lead time to construct uh any of the plants would be 10, 15 years. Uh, the permitting, who knows what the permitting would be with DNREC. Uh, there's a lot of a lot of challenges out there, and uh the small modular nuclear just hasn't It hasn't took hold. It hasn't become You know, once once many of them get out there, the price is going to drop. Uh, but, you know, it would be a great idea. Uh...

Brian E. Lewis

Okay, could you uh send me information on that, please? Okay, uh and and how you explored it. My next question is, um...

Brian E. Lewis

...have you looked into what other municipalities and states are doing to be cost-effective with their energy?

Paul Waddell

Yes.

Brian E. Lewis

Yeah, through DEMEC. What was their results?

Paul Waddell

Um, it's Everybody faces their own different challenges. Um, you can't just pinpoint and say, 'Well, this is what the situation is in Wyoming, this is what the situation is in Delaware.' Um, when you get out towards those areas, solar, you know, land is not an op- land isn't a isn't an issue. They can throw a whole bunch of solar and wind out there. Uh, we don't have that option. So, we're we're and they they operate off of a different interconnection than what we do. You know, they're in Southwest Power Pool, we're in PJM. PJM is, you know, unfortunately right now they're the most expensive interconnection in the country. Um, and so everybody has their own challenges. Um, the the biggest hurdle that everyone that I've seen is is struggling with is balancing energy costs with capital improvement. And, you know, that's that's I mean, that that's where we're at. We're we're we're trying to track the same target. Uh, DEMEC offers us a look into the other municipalities into the city- I mean, into the state, and uh we're we're all in the same ship. You know, we're just trying to It all comes down to the to the dollar. Um, you know, if if I could have a $250 million budget annually, you know, things would be great, but I I don't have that. You know, where I'm not I'm not a for-profit uh entity. I'm non-profit, so I don't I don't put money in, you know, stash money back. I don't answer to shareholders, I answer to the public. Um, so...

Brian E. Lewis

Yeah.

Brian E. Lewis

One more question, and you could send me this, um, if it's going to be an an exten- extended answer, is when you buy your equipment for the city, uh, do you explore going overseas for the equipment, or is is that pretty much the uh the way to go uh to be cost-effective?

Paul Waddell

Uh, we look for the most reliable, most cost-effective items that we can get. Um, I uh Councilman Sudler asked a question earlier and I answer- my one of my answers was that we did reach out to a South Korea manufacturer during COVID, and we've actually continued to work with them because their price point...

Paul

is good and they deliver when they say they're going to deliver. Um, so, yeah, we we explore all the options.

Council Member

That's all I have. Thank you very much.

Fred A. Neil

Okay. Um, want to move forward a little bit. Thank you, Paul, for um however many minutes you were up here. We appreciate it.

Paul

It was five.

Fred A. Neil

Okay. Five minutes. Yeah. Thank you. Um, next next up is uh our Director of Emergency Management and Communications, that's her new title, uh new set of responsibilities. So, go for it.

Kay Sass

Good morning. Andrea, can you flip the slide? Thank you. Can you go to the next one, please? This is where I really kind of want to start is Uh, one more. I'm sorry, Andrea. Is uh understanding our challenges and what we're really facing here. Um, I think the key word that we're going to hear across many departments this this morning is that we are all doing a lot more with a lot less. We have I I guess the quote I wrote down is, "We are doing more for more people with the same or fewer resources, and the solutions need to reflect that reality." The demand for emergency response and assistance has grown significantly. Today, we're responding not just to traditional emergencies, but also to mental health, homeless, substance abuse, and welfare checks, many of which are fundamentally a social service issue. At the same time, public funding for emergency response is limited and still largely structured around the police response, not to diminish their value by no means. There is very little flexible funding available when emergencies overlap with behavioral health, housing instability, or substance use needs. Like all services in Dover, these prices increase, creates a growing gap, expectations for response continue to rise faster than the resources designed to support them. We have seen EMS calls almost double in the last 10 years. Second, there's a common perception that the city—and this is all of you as well, right?—the city should be able to handle all of these sort situations directly. From the public's perspective, if they call 911, City Hall, or a councilman, the city becomes the default provider regardless of whether the issue truly falls within our authority, expertise, or funding structure. That mismatch has real impacts. It affects response times, increases staff workload, strains morale, and raises liability concerns. It also pulls limited emergency resources away from core public safety functions. Over time, that model simply isn't sustainable unless we address it intentionally. And while that expectation is understandable, it puts municipal governments in a difficult position. Many of these needs are more appropriately addressed by county, state, non-profit, or healthcare partners, but in the moment of crisis, the city is often the first and the only call. We also recognize that elected officials at the municipal level, particularly, often get the short end of the stick. Cities are expected to respond immediately, visibly, and effectively while operating with limited authority, limited staffing, limited funding, tools, and tight budgets. And I've spoke to many of you over this past week as we were dealing with what we've been dealing with, dealing with what we are right now with the cold temps, possible loss of power, high winds, ice, and now I want to use emergency sheltering as a real-world example of what we're dealing with every day. On the surface, it sounds very simple: we need to open a shelter. But when you actually break that down, it's anything but simple. Every task we take on has multiple moving parts that aren't always visible or even considered. So when we talk about alternative emergency sheltering, it's not just opening a door. We have to identify safe locations, ensure

Kay Sass

safety compliance, manage staffing and volunteers, track resources, and address liability. Someone has to coordinate the cots, the food, the medical care, sanitation, security, transportation, accessibility. Someone has to track who's responsible for what. And all of that has to be planned before the emergency, not while it's unfolding. Then we keep our plans fluid because we know nothing goes as planned.

Kay Sass

Liability is a huge part of this. When the city opens a shelter, we're responsible for the safety of everyone inside. That directly impacts EMS response, police response, fire marshal oversight, emergency management coordination. They're not theoretical uh concerns, they're operational realities. For the general public, it can sound like a simple enough solution, but the remain- reality remains it is simply not.

Kay Sass

It's why it's important that we use our collective voice to advocate at the state level for funding structures that reflect the reality of today's emergency demands, not those of 20 years ago. That includes the opioid funds and using some for the public safety support, prevention and programming, and other services that directly reduce repeat emergency calls with long-term solutions.

Kay Sass

If we're going to meet today's expectations, we need systems and funding models that match today's realities and that support municipalities in doing this work responsibly and effectively. Our community is not struggling because we don't care. We are struggling because we are doing more for more people with the same or fewer resources, and the solution needs to reflect that reality. Are there possible solutions? There are, some of which I've already answered. But until we're all willing to work together and spread it a little thinner, I don't know what else we can do. So I'm open to take any questions.

Council Member

Good morning, Ms. Sass.

Fred A. Neil

Thank- thank you, um, Kay, outstanding job the EMS uh has done. Do you- I think it's worthwhile kind of covering the history of the fees that we have added for the services. Do you remember when we had St. Francis here, what occurred that this- that uh, and again, that was all the taxpayers' money. That was all the people who were paying property taxes were paying for all those services for everybody in the city. Uh what was the determination for us to switch to uh another company to uh basically uh set up a fee, and how much did that fee take away from the taxpayers that would have paid to have to pay 100% of all of those costs?

Kay Sass

So originally, uh when we were working with Saint Francis, we- our cost was $100,000. It was kind of one of those--

Fred A. Neil

Up from what?

Kay Sass

Uh it was actually down from like $280-ish thousand with PrimeCare prior to that. And that's going back- I'm, you know, my figures are about 15 years old, so I could be off a little bit. Um but I believe it's right around that ballpark. And then when we had placed it out to bid, the bid came back $100,000. It was kind of one of those, is it too good to be true? We'll have to wait and see kind of things. Um we were able to sustain that for a short- well, for a few, several years, and then suddenly they came back and said we need to increase the cost. We're not- we're not staying afloat.

Kay Sass

That amount then went to- uh they came back, it was either 1.2 or 1.4 million they wanted to increase it to. Um at that point, we immediately took it out to bid. You know, we created the RFP and sent it out to bid. Uh sent it out a second time because we didn't get enough responses. So we wanted to be able to try- we knew there had to be somebody cheaper, somebody that could do the service at the level that--

Kay Sass

that we needed and provide to our community what is necessarily needed. So we put it back out to RFP. We got the second or third response—I don't even know how many we ended up with—back for $600,000. At that point, you know, we can't always just come with problems, I like to come with a solution, at least a an idea of how we can fix it, how we can close the gap. So that's whenever I brought forth the EMS fee. Everybody who uses it, everybody who has the potential to use it is everybody who is in our city at any given time. So I didn't want it to fall, nor did you guys, fall on the backs of taxpayers. I'm sorry, I fought the ice and the ice won this week, so I'm a little uncomfortable. Um so, anyway, the cost was $600,000, we created the EMS fee to be able to subsidize what it's going to run to keep them in Dover. They're currently running a fourth ambulance at no cost. They have a great working relationship with the fire department. Uh they utilize Station 2 all the time uh for a headquarter or for a station to be able to run out of. During the storm, for example, they set up at Station 1 as well. Then they also set up another one down at the Hampton Inn on the north end of town, and then another one out on South State Street. So what we're contracted with them, what they're currently providing is substantially more. Um but this is going to continue to increase. It's it's 82, 83% of an increase in the last 10 years, and there's really nothing, not one single thing that is the cause of it. It's not an increase in the elderly population alone. It's not an increase in the number of uh individuals that are 25 or less that cause more car accidents, you know, statistically. Uh it's not necessarily homeless, it's not necessarily the drugs. It's just a combination of everything, but the reality is our population is grow- growing slowly, and our increases are higher demands. Lack of primary care doctors is another cause people utilize the uh 911 system for. They don't have transportation. So instead of getting an Uber or something, they call 911 and hope that their medical insurance will cover it. So there's a lot of things in that are playing part of this, but at the same time they still have to respond. So all of these life safety measures that are in place in the city, whether it be police, fire, EMS, all of them contribute to the the well-being of our community. All of them have as much value as the next one, and I think we're just going to continue to see the needs increase, regardless of which area.

Fred A. Neil

So basically, the fees, which were taking off of the property tax, so the property tax owner is not paying for the whole thing.

Kay Sass

Correct.

Fred A. Neil

So that the nonprofits, which again are here in the amounts that uh Mr. Hugg has already talked about, they have to pay their share of this, keeping it off of the tax increase, which hasn't changed for what, three years?

Kay Sass

Yeah, it's a dollar fifty a month.

Fred A. Neil

Otherwise, it would be soaring. Would have to go up for that that price, each each what, $230,000, whatever. That that's a penny, right? So we've been able to keep that off and keep it down for that purpose and have the services and have actually more service for what than what what we were paying for.

Kay Sass

Right.

Fred A. Neil

I yield. Thank you.

Andre M. Boggerty

Thank you. And thank you for your presentation. And and thank you for all the hard work that all of the staff members and organizational citizens of of the city of Dover have uh, you know, done and performed and and covering each other. That's a great way to, you know, be Team Dover and and actually represent Team Dover and not say it. Um my one question is in in your view, uh when we talk about

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

What solutions for, you know, closing What are some of the solutions for closing the gap of feeling burnout? And what areas do we as Council need to focus on or as an organization and municipalities and governing not only our constituents, but also, um, our workforce, uh, to avoid some of these sentiments and feelings of being burned out and fatigued? What can What can we do in your view, um, that would, not we We already know that we appreciate what what all of you are doing when you step up and, you know, fill in the gap. But how can we go even further, um, without, you know, um, you know, hurting the constituents financially? Because I know, you know, money Time is money, money is time, right? But the same time, what else could we do? Could Could maybe some flexibility in, um, workplace policies, like a like a maybe a day off or work from home. You know, I've been a I've been a big, uh, advocate for, you know, working from home, remote working, or, you know, something of that effect. In your view, you've been here many years, you're very seasoned, and we and we respect, uh, your wisdom and dedication and insight, and your connections with with our workforce, um, and you you and others. So just in in in your view, um, what what do you think something not makes small, but at the same time, significant that we can do to show our appreciation and reduce, mitigate some of that, uh, you know, that fatigueness and that feeling of being burned out?

Kay Sass

So, I think some of this is best answered by Naomi when she does her presentation, um, just because it is, it's, you know, it's not just departmentally, it's across the gamut with everyone. I think a very simple thing, and it may not be a popular opinion of folks, but I think a very simple thing is give grace. You know, I think too many times in this world, we're too quick to to point fingers, we're too quick to get online and make comments. And, you know, this past week, I dealt with, uh, fire marshals, public works, grounds with Parks and Rec, water, wastewater, electric, clerk's office, assistant city manager, city manager, police, fire, and more. You know, every single person, so every single department, it seemed, was, uh, in this whole thing. And yet you go out on social media or you get these phone calls, and they're just so nasty. I understand things may not be to everybody's liking, but God bless, give grace. You know, that doesn't cost anybody anything, and everybody has worked very hard this last week. And, you know, you've got police officers out in the cold, and you've got our public works crews out shoveling and breaking up inches and inches of ice. And it's not out of lack of caring. You have an incredible workforce here. Everybody that I come across, everybody that I interact with regularly is here because they really enjoy their job and/or the people. You know, we work with some of the best folks that I'll forever be friends with even after I'm long gone from the City of Dover, and I'm grateful for that. But I think that's the number one thing, you know: support staff. As elected officials, when things are going awry, support staff. Know that that you have put your faith in a crew, in a in a community of crews, that are here to do what's in the best interest, and and support that. Keep your expectations to the point of what can be done with the limited resources we have. Even, you know, it's it's It'd be great to be able to get grants for everything, but the amount of time spent applying for grants, the amount of time spent then administering those grants and reporting those, it's not a simple task. It takes a lot of time, it takes a lot of of effort and additional resources that we

Kay Sass

don't necessarily have it goes back to doing a lot more with a lot less. So I think overall give grace.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Thank you. I yield.

Kay Sass

Thank you. Yes? Hello, Mr. Boggerty?

Andre M. Boggerty

Hey, Kay. I have a question. Um some time ago when there was an opportunity to talk about relationship with the uh with the fire department and the ambulance, um one of the things that uh with the committee was if there's an MOU that would allow that relationship to uh give us and I can in my in my front part I could be slightly wrong. I know if there was an MOU or working animal that then we would qualify for funding from the state with red light cameras or something like that. Again, the nuance could be wrong, but I understand that there was a benefit with an established relationship with the if if the ambulance fell under the fire. Would Is that Does that Does that sound familiar?

Kay Sass

Yes, it does. Partially correct. So it's the volunteer services, right? Um and when when they administer the both the police and the—or I'm sorry, the fire and the ambulance, i.e. EMS, um which is not the way ours is set up. And there's been other conversations that aren't necessarily this is not necessarily the arena to have that conversation, um and I wouldn't want to—

Andre M. Boggerty

Yeah, I yield back. I'm fine.

Kay Sass

Yeah, I thank you.

Andre M. Boggerty

Thank you, Kay. Okay. All right, I just wanted to I did Thank you. I yield.

Kay Sass

Appreciate it.

Fred A. Neil

Thank you, Kay. And go ahead move ahead and and uh if if uh Mr. Lewis has has a question we can uh deal with it offline. So the next group is the next presentation is Finance, our controller treasurer, Ms. Marney, and you're on.

Patricia Marney

Well, hello. I chose to keep my uh presentation very brief because I I am fully aware that usually Electric, which Paul has uh has stepped out, is uh the star of the show so to speak. I find it interesting that cash cow was brought up. I was kind of miss hearing that uh that phrase sometime. All right. So giving the uh 5,000-ft view as Mr. Hugg uh so eloquently put it in his request for our reporting. The Finance Department has many functions uh where we're supporting the city manager and other departments. Just like everyone else, we are ultimately responsible for reporting fiduciary have fiduciary responsibilities to the Dover citizens. That's uh a role that I take very seriously as does my staff. So, some uh key key points uh that I wanted to address, again, you're going to hear this repetitively from many of the departments as far as challenging challenges is staffing. Staffing and recruiting has been a significant challenge for me over the last couple of years. We've utilized temporary agencies and recruitment agencies to fill the gap, but with that comes constant training and turnover. We've had uh a lot of turnover in our payroll area. Fortunately, knock on wood, we have a wonderful individual who comes to us with a strong accounting background and a master's degree. So she's working a little below her skill set, but that is something that we—

Finance Staff

we really need it. Now, when I say that, some of our salary points for the finance department are lower than what the market bears. You've seen some of the some of the recruitments that come back to us and they want six figures. We can't match that. So there's there's a constant training issue and a gap there that we're trying to fill fill the fill the void. So like many of our departments, we are stretched very thin in being able to meet the demands, which leads to my next challenge, which is the ability to respond to audit demands timely with departmental support. You know, no one likes to hear the word audit, but when when auditors ask a question, we have to be able to respond timely. And that leads to opportunity. I see that we do have some opportunities within the city to improve our technology bases that can help us meet those demands more clearly. And also just want to give a shout-out to Joe, wherever he is. Thank you, Joe, for getting Munis the Munis upgrade done so we could actually get W-2s and 1099s out on time.

Finance Staff

My question from Council, we have several things that we're working for towards budget, and Mr. Hugg has made those made those notations. But my direction or my questions for Council are what directions and goals do you want for the finance department so that we can serve the city and the citizens better? We will continue to have policy reviews both internally and ex- for externally, internal controls especially. Of course, the draft audit, ACFR, was presented for this week's Leg and Fin meeting that was put off, but there are some audit considerations that I would like to discuss with Council at that time when it's reviewed. But with that, I am open to questions.

Fred A. Neil

Any questions? You have a question, Mr. Anderson? Okay. All right.

David L. Anderson

And thank you for getting us back on schedule, more or less.

Fred A. Neil

Okay, what's next? Human Resources. Naomi, this is your your opportunity.

Naomi Poole

Good morning, everyone.

Fred A. Neil

Good morning. Go.

Naomi Poole

All right, so I'm just going to give a quick overview of HR and what we do. Human Resources supports every department and every employee in the city. Our role is to ensure that people are hired, paid, supported, and managed in a way that's fair, consistent, and compliant with law and policy. We oversee recruitment and onboarding, benefits, retirement, administration, employee relations, and coordination with payroll and leave programs. Just as importantly, HR serves as a control function, helping the city apply policy consistently, prevent errors before they occur, and reduce legal and financial risks. When HR is involved early and equipped with the right tools, we help with the organization running smoothly and avoid costly mistakes, and that's the value that HR brings, not just administration, but stability, accountability, and protection for the city and its employees. Currently, we're working on an HRIS-ATS system, and we're working on an implementation, which it has become a very important

Ms. Poole

important, uh, priority. Uh, the system will support the full employee life cycle, so from recruitment and onboarding to pay, benefits, and retirement. When implemented correctly, it will improve, uh, efficiency, communication, collaboration, and follow-up for both candidates and internal employees. Um, and it certainly modernizes how we serve people and strengthening strengthens the city's, uh, operations. Uh, from a fiscal standpoint, the city has invested more than $50,000 in this system. Um, so it's critical that the implementation is done, uh, thoughtfully and built correctly to ensure that we receive the full value of its investment. Uh, so when we talk about challenges, my primary challenge is, um, is being impacted, uh, regarding this project, um, in its operational readiness, uh, specifically system access. Since the summer, HR has been actively building and configuring the system with full administrative access. Uh, approximately 3 weeks ago, that access was modified without prior discussion, uh, and/or clarification. HR is now operating with limited permissions, and certain configuration and testing steps require, um, requesting access from another department. When that access is unavailable, progress pauses. This has slowed the build process, and it has placed the February implementation timeline timeline at risk. The issue is not the technology itself. It's the ability for HR to independently configure, test, and support the system in real time. For HR to be accountable for outcomes that affect every employee, responsibility and access must align. And when they don't, delays occur, and risk increases. My priority is simple: it's to ensure that system is implemented successfully without disruption to employees and in a way that delivers on the city's investment. The solution is alignment. Um, because this is an HR system and HR is responsible for its outcomes, HR must have full system access to remove barriers, complete the build efficiently, and support employees effectively. Strong leadership is not defined by oversight alone, but by empowerment. Uh, when leaders are held accountable for results, they must also be equipped with the tools and access necessary to deliver them. When responsibility and access are aligned, systems succeed and people thrive. I'm open to any questions if you have any.

Fred A. Neil

Yep, Mr. Rocha.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Thank you. Thank you for recognizing me. So,

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

uh,

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Ms. Poole, I, I, I do, uh, hear, uh, what you're saying as far as, uh, th- the the, uh, alignable process to to get this off the ground and and running before any deadlines. And I know there's other hiccups that's getting in the way right now with the ne- the new consultant that's coming on board, right, if I'm using the term correctly. A new...

Ms. Poole

We have a new consultant, but there's no hiccups regarding that.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

No hiccups regarding that. Okay.

Ms. Poole

Not that I'm aware of.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Okay. So, but what I, from an IT perspective background, when it comes to permissions, um, number one, I, I can't see, other than the breakdown in communication, how that couldn't be resolved. And I don't know where the breakdown in communication is, um, but that should be an easy fix. Um, I think that Ms. Poole

Roy Sudler, Jr.

who deserves to have a sit-down, a face-to-face sit-down where she would be able to articulate her needs and, you know, Ms. Marney if if if you would be a part of that and Mr. Hugg, and and and even Miss Ms. Duca to be, you know, brought up to speed on that, to try to resolve what is actually needed. I kind of understand why, um, you know, as far as the cutoff is concerned, I I kind of get that. At the same time, what I don't get is how come you can't have the necessary permissions needed, uh, which should be articulated so that those those permissions could be resolved. And and and really, I think, uh, when I became aware of it as as an employee liaison, um, that should have taken place before that. Um, so, you know, I don't know who wants to take that on, but what is the breakdown with, you know, helping Ms. Poole get what she needs?

Naomi Poole

Well, I think the the the other issue at hand is, and what I've been told to do is, is just go through the motions of trying to complete the build, and if there's anything that I need, then request what it is that I need. So, again, that's a barrier in the process of getting things done. Why do I have to piecemeal as opposed to just having the full access and get through the build so that we can have this implementation happen? And this is what I say, it's very important that leaders get all the tools that they need to be successful. And if we're going to talk about challenges, I don't have all the necessary tools.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Okay, so were you given the reasons why?

Naomi Poole

No.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Okay, that that needs to probably occur. Um, and and, um, we have to figure it out cuz there is a snag with the permissions. There is a snag when it comes to what your access is allowable and what's not, you know what I mean? But there is a way to do it from your HR perspective.

Naomi Poole

Well, I think the question is is who decides that? And I think that's where we have to figure out who decides that and and how does that impact the HR department in doing what they need to do, um, from an accountability standpoint, to get the job done? This is a 90% HR, uh, implementation. We are taking care of recruitment. We are taking care of, um, benefits. We are taking care of onboarding. And in order to build this system properly, we need the full access. We can't have pie- bits and pieces and also wait for permissions, especially if somebody is not present that day and I have to wait. That's that's that's that's a boundary that's crossing at this point that we can't we can't work through. Any questions?

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, we ain't done yet.

Naomi Poole

Okay, I thought you...

Roy Sudler, Jr.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. What, my question was, what is it going to take to get Naomi what she needs?

David L. Hugg

Uh, it's my understanding that those discussions are underway or have been underway. I've not been part of them.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Well, then tell us what it is.

David L. Hugg

Well, I don't know. I mean, I look around my IT director and others. Um, that it's something that needs to get worked out, I agree. Um, and I I don't want to venture and say, well, she should or should not have full access cuz I don't know enough about the system to to know what that means, but...

Naomi Poole

We have an implementation date of February 1st that's not going to happen because I don't have the access that I need. I made it known three weeks ago that I don't have the access, and we still don't have a resolve.

Fred A. Neil

All right. We will get...

City Staff

on it. Thank you.

Fred A. Neil

All right. So, Lewis, did you have a question, sir?

Brian E. Lewis

I do, and this is nothing personal. I know you do your job, and I got the highest respect for you, but I get people that call me and they ask me, like, we've had jobs posted for, like, some over a year now, and they ask me, how come these jobs have not been filled, number one? And then I get other complaints and calls that, I put in for this position and I wasn't even called, you know, and the job's been posted for a year. So could you just elaborate on that, if you don't mind?

City Staff

I sure can. We are working with antiquated systems, so what I'm suggesting at this point is, is we are in the middle of an implementation build to eradicate all of those issues. This system is going to allow us to communicate to candidates who apply. It's going to allow us to have that communication to be able to share it with hiring managers so that they can give real-time feedback. Um this system is going to just really open the doors uh regarding that communication with candidates.

City Staff

Um it's difficult for us to do that in our stage right now because it's all manual. So imagine, um, you know, I've been in HR for over 20 years, I feel like I'm starting all over again. We're receiving uh actual paper applications. Um our candidates at this point, once the implementation build happens, are going to be able to apply online, and then they'll get real-time responses if they meet the qualifications or if they don't. And that's why it's so important that, and and why I'm bringing this up as a challenge, is that we get this underway so that we can solve the issues that some of your constituents that you are saying are experiencing will never experience again.

Brian E. Lewis

Thank you.

Fred A. Neil

Dr. Sudler?

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Thank you. Uh just thank you for your for your expertise, professionalism, and your patience uh in just in general. Uh just quick question, or really a request. Um if maybe we could I sort of noticed a decrease in our organizational support activities for our employees. I'm just wondering if we could um try and find a way back to those little barbecues and those little moments of, you know, just um socializing amongst each other in the workplace. I think that really helped to boost uh morale. Uh it sort of goes back to what um Ms. Kays-Sass had presented uh in regards to grace, just give a little grace, and doesn't have to be big and significant. And I think part of uh giving a little grace, which I've heard they really appreciate, is um, you know, just, you know, a little barbecue or or some type of activity.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

So that's all I I have. I know you're on top of things, so I don't have any questions. [laughter] But yeah, you know, I got new sauce for y'all, you know. I got that fried fish. [laughter] I don't know, you know, I'm promoting Soulard Seasoning right now, no, I'm just joking, but seriously. Um you know, I I, everybody knows I enjoy it, and that's my way of giving back and showing appreciation. And um I think that, you know, that one little thing or other little things, even if we had like activity night or something, I don't know, but I just think that that's all work and and no play, I think that's, you know, you got to have just a little bit, but and and, but yeah, helps with boost morale. So that's all.

City Staff

I strongly agree, yeah. And that's something that I'm sure we can try and build into the budget this year.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Thank you. I yield.

Fred A. Neil

Thank you. So no other questions, we will move forward. What? Does David have a question? I'm sorry.

David L. Anderson

Thank you.

Fred A. Neil

I'm not very good at this, obviously. [laughter]

Andre M. Boggerty

Hey, hey, that's you're doing a fine job, Mr. Chairman, and that's why that we got you there and him there.

Brian E. Lewis

[laughter] But it's, uh, I have a, uh, well, for one, I, I, regarding that, I have two words: chili cookoff.

Kim Hawkins

[laughter] Right, uh-huh.

Brian E. Lewis

When is this year's chili cookoff? We need to have that. That doesn't really have cost because,

Kim Hawkins

Yeah, employees bring in their chili.

Brian E. Lewis

Yeah, and it brings a lot of, uh, morale and it's a lot of pride in all the different chilis, and, and I know Dr. Pillsbury and I'll be looking forward to being to judging again. [laughter]

Robin R. Christiansen

[laughter] Well, Brian, we'll keep we'll keep that one uh fiery Indian chili from you then. [laughter]

Brian E. Lewis

Those Those are great. And, uh, I just wanted to, uh, I hope we do have that again sometime, uh, you know, in the next couple months. I hope somebody, uh, has it because it's, uh, traditionally, uh, we do it in the winter in the city.

Brian E. Lewis

Uh, but anyway, uh, the next, uh, question I've had regarding this and is, um, you've had problems before, you and Finance, uh, trying to get things with MissionSquare regarding the, uh, 401(k)s, the 457s, and the proper updates that are not only allowed by by law, but also mandated by city policy. Have Have those particular situations been resolved, uh, now that you you've had some time, you've had some new builds and, etc.?

Kim Hawkins

Um, so regarding just how we're following all the the the plan documents and all of those things?

Brian E. Lewis

Well, I know I know you do that all the time, but like there were were times when, um, like, for instance, there's been, that people are allowed to make changes and, but they've had trouble making changes that they are allowed to by federal law, that they're allowed to by city policy,

Brian E. Lewis

but MissionSquare and the city system interacting didn't allow people to make the changes, to make the, uh, uh, increases, uh, etc. Increases, decreases, etc. that they might want to do. I was, you know, at at certain times, um, you know, in there because there were problems. Uh, my curiosity, I know that you all worked through that so you could, uh, people could could get things done. Um, so I'm not looking backward, but I'm just asking, now that we've moved forward, has there been a a change, or are things working easily, or is everything still a struggle, uh, whenever, uh, there's a, uh, change al- allowed now?

Kim Hawkins

Um, on my end, I don't think that there's been any issues. Um, I think we're following the plan as it as it should be at this point. Um, open enrollment is when we allow employees to make changes to their 401 and their 457. So, and then we've updated all employees to a 6% match. Um, so I think we're following all the guidelines, uh, that we are supposed to. Um, I'm not aware of any issues.

Brian E. Lewis

Good. Good, that's good. Because I know that you all have been working hard with them to make the system smoother.

Kim Hawkins

Yeah.

Brian E. Lewis

And then, and after that, another question, uh, that I'd like to ask, um, offline about, uh, pensions and the like.

Kim Hawkins

Okay. Certainly.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Uh, Council President Neil.

Fred A. Neil

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Rocha. Uh, I'm going to follow up on Mr. Lewis's, uh, question. I hope that if somebody's

Fred A. Neil

is coming in now or in the future with a paper document of employment, that they will not sit. Because some people will do that, they will probably still deal in paper. So they need the same courtesy that he was referring to, to be able to act swiftly. I look at several things, because we now have a report coming to us on a regular basis of the job openings, and basically when they were put in, what happen- there's one I think that still exists from 20- 23, that is still open at this time. I also look at diversity, and there's not too much change in that, and that I think is sig- significant to be able to become more diverse in terms of that hiring process with qualified people, people have to be qualified. And throughout my Cliff Notes that I have here are the problems of filling those positions, and the pressure it puts on where you have to do more with less. So it is vital in terms of the recruitment process, and if there's problems that we are causing to that are that are causing people not to come, we need to know that too, if it's our fault. What do we need to do it? Now we've had some people who have mentioned that when they were working for the city, that they had very low increases each year. Is is is the problem with the amount of money that we pay, or are there other problems that we have in order to keep and fill those ranks? Because that's morale for the people who have to do double duty to get the job done. So that's something that I would say as a caution in terms as we go forward, and I yield.

Naomi Poole

Yes. Can I respond to that?

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Yes, ma'am.

Naomi Poole

Um so yes, we're going to have people who are going to drop off paper applications still, and that's fine, because we can manually enter it into the system. Um so that won't hold up their process at all. Um this system is um is is for everyone, whether uh we do uh job fairs and people are giving us their resume, we can now go back into the system and input it and create a candidate portal so that our hiring managers can review it and give real-time updates. So I think that's really important. Um you speak to diversity, I think diversity is very important within an organization, um and that solely depends on how we are posting our positions, but also how our hiring managers are reviewing those resumes and applications and interviews as well. Um so it's a it's a it's it's everyone needs to be involved in that process um of making sure that we are looking at candidates from an objective standpoint um and maintaining um the ideals of diversity within an organization, because it's important. So I certainly agree with that sentiment. Um but I do want to make it known that with this increase of technology, it really is going to make things much more efficient, but it's not going to cause others to not be able to take part um and and reap the benefits of it.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Okay, thank you all very much. Moving forward, thanks, Naomi.

Naomi Poole

Thank you.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Who's up next? Yeah, who we got next? Okay, IT, you're next. Thanks, Jeff.

IT Presenter

Good morning, Council, Mayor, and City Manager. Um uh this IT presentation, if you could go to the next slide, okay. So basically, IT is the manager of all the technology infrastructure and systems uh and networks uh

IT Staff

uh for to support the city needs and city of Dover, okay? Our main focus and vision is uh to support on the various departments in the city, the various their function and by through that, um supporting um the citizens. Um if you go in the next couple of slides, hey? Next couple of slides, I think slide five, next one. I want to I want to focus on slide five, yeah, okay. So the challenges. Um a lot of other departments uh talked about staff shortages um and this is for us is not a theoretical issue. Um a recent issue, um I just hired um an IT LAN tech support person uh to come on board. He came on board, obviously who before we hired him he was interviewing for other jobs. Um came on board, stayed here for uh two months, um did a fantastic job, was fantastic customer service. Um he got a call from a from another local company that offered him $20,000 more than what we was paying him. And after all the time interviewing, onboarding, training, getting up to speed, um he had a tough decision. Um he was very upfront, open um with us um about his his his his his offer.

IT Staff

Um but, you know, obviously he has a family and he had to go ahead and take the opportunity because the city could not match uh what this other employee was offering him. So, that just happened uh within the last um two to three weeks. So, it's definitely a challenge that we have to find a way to overcome that because we're just going to be a revolving door. And I know you talked about some of HR things um about hiring and retaining employees, this is going to be a challenge. And especially when you get to positions that are high demand, and uh fortunately technology it is in high demand. It's It's somewhere where, you know, you're going to have competing against because every business, company needs technology. And And it is what it is.

Andre M. Boggerty

Good. Uh thank you. Do you think, or have you seen in your profession where um if you hire someone, then they have to commit to at least three years? Do you think a a clause like that may be helpful because uh like you said, it'll be a revolving door if if, you know, someone comes, you train for a year and then someone comes and

IT Staff

Yeah, I think that's a a better question for HR as far as the nuances, as far as, you know, legalities or as far as because you get more of a contractual agreement rather than employment agreement with that. Um...

Andre M. Boggerty

Have you seen that in your in your discipline?

IT Staff

I haven't I haven't seen that in the IT field. Um...

Andre M. Boggerty

Thank you.

IT Staff

come up. Uh the second thing is aging infrastructure. Um our city facilities, uh City Hall here, Reed Street, are old. They're getting they're getting up in the age um as far as what we have far as wiring, um far as um uh computer infrastructure, uh uh uh uh systems that we need to replace. Um obviously, what we need to do is that we need to go through and get um an inventory. Obviously, um as council already know, we are going through a big modernization project for as our our servers, our back-end infrastructure, that's going to um be kicking off um very very soon. Um so, but we still there's a lot of things out here in the city that we have to have a plan on replacing. It's going to cost money. Um and just kind of keep up on the old infrastructure, whether it's, you know, the camera system, security system, uh the telephone system, uh things like that, um is is getting up in age, and we've got to start coming up with a plan to replace that. Future budget constraints. Um obviously, you know, things cost money. Um just like uh Paul Electric said is that you know, the cost of servers and you know, the whole data center thing is not drop-

IT Director

...not just electric, that's one half of it. It's also driving chips and servers. Your chips and server prices are going to go up because all that demand for data center chips are taking and driving the pricing for servers is going to drive up through the roof the next two or three years because they're, you know, they have a lot of demand for technology also. So it's not just electricity side, it's going to be on the technology and server and chip side, too, with either Nvidia, whatever.

IT Director

So, that's one thing we really got to focus on is that, you know, IT is going to cost more, you know, there's no way to get around that. The last thing, really, emerging technologies. You know, how do we use, you know, you know, OpenAI. AI is going to play a big role in going forward.

IT Director

It's already creeping into applications we have. If you go online, go onto Google, they have a AI component now, where the, you know, applications are starting to interject AI into the application. So whether you adopt it or not, the next time you go open up Word or open up Excel, it's going to have an AI component in there. So we got to start looking at how can we leverage these technologies to help the city as we move forward. So the next slide,

IT Director

I'm big big on, you know, if I bring you challenges, I'm going to bring you some opportunities and how I can see some initiatives that we can get around there. One thing, expand our digital services, you know, make it easy for for customers to find information out, make it easy for departments to communicate with each other. It may be mobile apps, it may be, you know, better connection for remote work. So we have to really expand, keep expanding our digital services because it's going to save us money with manpower hours and make their job easier to get along.

IT Director

Another opportunity, help strengthen our community partnerships. Another good, you know, I gave you one side of the story for staffing, I'm going to give you the other good side. We partnered with DelTech. We had an intern come over this summer, worked here for three months free to learn our systems. Obviously, it's a give-and-take. She learned a lot about, you know, how we work, IT. I was able to turn around and hire that person full-time. She's a local resident that graduated from Dover High, has her associate degree from DelTech, going to get her bachelor's degree from Wilmington College. Now she is a valuable employee for the City of Dover. So that that's a success story. But we got to keep keep that up.

IT Director

I would like to bring two interns in every summer to kind of either, too, help us out with things that, you know, the mundane IT things, but also give them back more experience and that we can kind of like alleviate some of the the workload on our full-time employees to get that program going. Continue to work with Kent County, work with the state to kind of leverage. Another thing Paul said about DEMEC,

IT Director

well, not only that the city's back in DEMEC is that they have an IT component where all IT directors from DEMEC get together and we can start sharing information, sharing what applications we use, maybe get a discount if we all use the same application. So partnerships, partnerships, partnerships is definitely going to help us as far as some of the initiatives and some of the constraints that we have going forward. I'm a big component of that. Partner with different organizations that can help us out, and we can help them out, so it's a win-win situation. The last thing is everybody heard of smart cities.

City Staff

the more we go to technology to help, um I think the better off we're going to be. Um there's a lot of initiatives out here, you know. I can rattle off five or six examples like, you know, can customers pay their bill by, you know, Apple Pay? You know, they don't have to come in to customer service, you know. Can there be online video chat with somebody if discussing their bills so they don't have to come to customers service? So things like that is is technology-wise is available that we can do that can help the city out. But also, it's an investment and it takes time. And some of those things that we can, you know, see what other municipalities are doing, cuz a lot of municipalities is doing some great things as far as technology, and we need to incorporate that in the city. It's not going to be all at once because, like you said, it's very expensive. But we need to kind of chart our way over the next 5 years of things we can do um as far as um helping the city, as far as obviously saving money, saving with resources, but using technology to the fullest uh point possible.

Fred A. Neil

Are there questions about IT that um Mr. Mr. Lewis, I'll start with you this time.

Brian E. Lewis

All right, I'll try and make my questions brief. Um my first question is, um have you reached out uh to any other municipalities to see, um you know, what initiatives uh they are um implementing to save costs within their IT department?

City Staff

Uh yes. Um let me give you a a good example, and it's not particularly to what initiatives they're doing, but um um partnership with Kent County, and I'm a big proponent of that. Obviously, you know about the assessment um that Kent County did. Um the Kent County has a lot of county data that the city uses, okay? It'd be great and it'll save the city a lot of money if we can share that data. So, when, again, it's take for instance a property. Um when a property ownership changes in the city of Dover, they still have to go to Kent County, cuz that's where the uh uh recorder of deeds are at. But how can we get that information update our systems in real time? You know, things things like that will obviously save us money and also make the process a lot faster. Just incorporating in partnership with the Kent County, as far as their assessment data that we can use and in put and pull into the city.

Brian E. Lewis

I I think that's uh definitely uh an excellent uh collaboration. Uh my next question is, um you know, I know recently you applied for various grants uh to assist the city with purchasing a new equipment and all. Uh what do you anticipate doing with the um current equipment? Do you sell it, or what can you do with that? Are you going to use it as backup? Or uh is there any uh ways that we can recoup any funding that can go out back into our, you know, reserve?

City Staff

Okay. That's a that's a great question. Um what we're going to do with the equipment, I mean specifically talking about the servers and network equipment at Reed Street, okay? So what we're going to do is we're replacing the servers and SANs at Reed Street and we're taking what's at Reed Street and move it over to the electric administration building, and we're creating a redundant backup system. Um the hardware at Reed Street is, you know, serviceable. Uh we own it, it's on lease for the next 3 years. Um so we're going to take that equipment and utilize it, and utilize it so if something happened to Reed Street, a power outage or something happened to the building, it will automatically switch over to the electric administration building. Um servers will be running over there. IT has a rack over there um that we can utilize,

IT Director

and we just got to configure the system. So all the equipment that we're replacing is going to be utilized going forward.

Brian E. Lewis

Okay, so so so the public understands we're going to keep the current equipment once we get the new? We're not going to sell it? Okay, gotcha.

Brian E. Lewis

Last and final question pertaining to IT is do you have the anticipated date on when you're going to replace some of the equipment in this council chamber, because I know through various grants, I know there's some staff members here in the audience that would like to know also. Do you have an anticipated date when this equipment is going to be replaced? Because I think it's imperative, in particular I get a lot of complaints from my constituents and the public that they're not being able to view city council meetings and stuff online.

IT Director

Okay. Yes, we have been actively working with the clerk's office and CASAS and with the vendor, Assurance Media, to come here and do a full-blown assessment of what we had, what equipment we have, what can we do. They came in, they did little tweaks, but they definitely gave us a list and quote. I just got the email two days ago about how much it will cost to replace the equipment in this room. Obviously, we probably have to go out and take that to RFP or a bid process. But yes, we're actively working on replacing, to update this equipment. I would like to give you a date when, you know, that'd be complete by, but I can tell you we're actively working on that as we speak right now.

Brian E. Lewis

Okay, I'll accept your answer as it is. Thank you. No further questions.

David S. Hugg, III

Mr. Rocha.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Thank you, Mr. Hugg. And and thank you for the briefing. One of the things in your briefing that piqued my curiosity is the the expanded digital services portion of it. Is there any possibility—I know you're working with DelTech, but is there any possibility or have you explored working with Delaware State University to see that to see if any of their students could take on a project for us to maybe develop an app for the members of our community?

IT Director

That's a good idea. I have tried to reach out to Del State previously and I just haven't got no response. But I think the next step would be if anybody has any, you know, direct contact to actually meet them personally and sit down and see if we can have some synergies, because like you said, any opportunity that we have that we can we can take advantage of, especially with young talent, I think we need to take advantage of. And that's something that, you know, I'm very open to look into and try to explore even more.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

And thank you for that. Myself and Dr. Sudler could probably try to beat the bushes and maybe, you know, one of my other colleagues might be able to help you set up a meeting for that.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

The next question in in reference to replacement, is it still the replacement of technology, is it still a rule of thumb that we should be looking to upgrade every three years, or what what kind of Is there a system in place right now that you're going by, or is that something you've got to develop from scratch?

IT Director

No, there's a system in place. I mean, for for for for your major infrastructure, you're looking maybe

IT Staff

five to seven years upgrade. Um, and it's really a lot of the upgrade depending upon the support from the manufacturer. And they put out dates for end of life, um, they have extended warranty, or like you're saying, after you get past that, um, you know, that that's that's non-supported. And that's usually about that five to seven-year, um, time frame, um, that you look and replace the equipment. Um, so, uh, and once we get through this upgrade, we'll have definitely a better understanding of our replacement cycle. And we'll start looking at, um, those things so we can maybe put some in, you know, reserve funds or budgeting. So when five or six years down the road from now, we can say, hey, we got that money put aside.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Okay, yeah, that sounds good. Thank you. Um, and then as far as devices, are we okay with with our uh device upgrades?

IT Staff

Yes, um, we've been going through and doing, um, remote, um, upgrades to from Windows 10 to Windows 11. And then at the same time, with through the department upgrades as far as their PCs and hardware, some of them older devices are kind of rolling out rolling off, but right now we're we are definitely on target and good with, um, device upgrades.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Awesome. Thank you very much, I appreciate that. I yield.

Fred A. Neil

Mr. Anderson.

David L. Anderson

Yeah. Hey, thank you very much. Uh, thank you for the the job you've done. It's been a a tremendous year, and I just wanted to say thank you for that. And the building of the department and uh up it is it's been just uh tremendous and and I have a a lot of uh confidence in the future. And it's uh some of my questions have already been asked, but I so I'm going to just focus on a couple areas. One is uh uh there there definitely is, I've seen at NLC, there's definitely a a lot of uh movement in the space of uh AI and technology with uh helping the cities uh become more efficient and that some have tried um uh that to address some of the areas that uh uh Mrs. Sas has uh addressed. Uh because we, you know, sometimes we have to uh use tools not to replace people, but to augment people. And I importance of people though, and that's not just uh, you know, that you're a point of contact there, but that's a system-wide thing that has to be done. Not not as if it doesn't all fall on you. Obviously your expertise is where people will go for that, but just wanted to point that out. I think that that has a lot of potential, has some risk to it, but but that's something that I hope we uh explore in our 5-year plan. Um, the other aspect has to do with uh you have uh I want to thank you, I know that you're working on network and and the like, and I I echo uh Councilman Lewis. Um, we we definitely the the public uh has certain expectations. Uh now that the City of Dover set up in our infrastructure, um, aging, that uh we're falling short of those expectations and and that's definitely one of the uh top complaints that we're making because that we that people make to us uh after the typical ones that you would expect, safety and uh street infrastructure. Believe it or not, it's a lot after that, it starts to come to

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

to um with the accessibility. Cuz people want to access uh government today um differently than they did 20 years ago. They want to be able to access it on their phone, on their TV, you know, where they are, and interact um with us um that way. They didn't have that interaction expectation. Um and that that's important. Um and I I just uh want to thank you all for making sure that that that's a priority in upgrading because uh that's what the public's demanding.

IT Director

Thank you.

Dave Hugg

Council President Neil.

Fred A. Neil

I thank you, um Mr. Hugg. Uh first off, bravo on using the interns. What a marvelous, marvelous program, and I absolutely uh adore the fact that that's happening, that we're training people, helping to train people, and it helps us at the same time.

Fred A. Neil

Now basically you talked about leases. Uh now are we buying equipment or are we leasing equipment? A lot of the uh police department uh programs that are we were considering, what have you, are strictly on leases. I mean, you you have it for three years and it costs so much so much. Uh is it costing us more or less? Are the leases going up or leases going down in terms of what we deal?

IT Director

Okay, so I'm break it down for you as far as the equipment that I have for my predecessor um for servers and storage capacity. Um he leased that out for um 5 years. He did a 5-year lease. Um I think we're in year two um of that 5 years, so I think we have 3 more years left to go. Um we was fortunate enough to um via the grant to go out and the new equipment come in is the majority of equipment, I'll say probably uh 70% of the equipment is going to be purchased. So it's a one-time purchase from the city. So it's good, great, we got the money, we're buying it, which is going to be no lease. Um the part that we are um going to do is the storage is going to be a SaaS storage type of thing. All the hardware is going to be on-site, we're going to have it here, but we're going to lock in for 5 years for the cost and price, and I think that is a excellent thing to do because as like you said, server and storage prices go up, the city is going to be locked in for the next 5 years. Um um so I'm a proponent of buying um because you control your costs. Um obviously it's a large CapEx when you try to buy everything because it costs a lot of money instead of trying to lease it and spread the payments over 5 years. Um but that's a way to do cost control, too. So, um when looking for lease or purchase, it all comes down to obviously finances and also actually uh uh cost, you know. Something that we can afford to go out and buy, that's my first preference, but if it's something where you're talking, you know, multiple $100,000 or $300,000 server, $400,000 server, or a software system, I think you've got to look at both purchasing and lease um based upon our finances.

Fred A. Neil

I hate to interrupt you, but we need to keep moving forward. Is uh um do you have Dr. Sudler, do you have a question?

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Yes, I do. If the council president has is

Fred A. Neil

I yield.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Thank you for recognizing me. Um, a few questions. I'll start with my first one in regards to uh disaster continuity and and and it's basically in regards to if a system has failed, uh what is our robust recovery plan for maintaining essential services?

IT Director

Uh going forward or or

Staff Member

as we finish this project, that's the main reason why we're doing this project, is to have that redundancy. So, obviously we want to get to a point where we have zero failures, but if we do have a failure, we have a backup, a failover backup system. Obviously, right now it's it's a point of if something did fail catastrophically, it's going to have to be a manual process to restore. We do have backups that we back up our data, on-site and off-site.

Sharon Duca

Probably not best to discuss that publicly. Sorry.

Staff Member

Okay. So, but those plans are put in place.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Okay, that's that's that's great. Um do you think that maybe um having we used to have Comcast that sort of uh filmed our or or covered our uh meetings before we invested in our own system. Um what I would like to see is maybe we have Comcast provide us with um some figures to see maybe it might be more cost-effective to go back to Comcast covering um our meetings in here, um but I guess we still would need, I don't know, would we would we need upgrade the system that we have now if if it wasn't covering the City Council meetings uh where it had to be on, you know, online uh or that nature in real time? Uh I was thinking well maybe we could just have Comcast to cover uh our City Council meeting, which may cut cost, be more cost-effective. And then our current infrastructure uh we could still use for in-house because it appears that it's it's sufficient uh to, you know, post online. But it seems like the big problem that we're having is the real time Comcast City Council meeting and

Roy Sudler, Jr.

cameras, you know, not operable, not working, you know, here and there, which could, which I sounds like it's it's due to maybe antiquated equipment or lack of being able to get the parts, you know. So, I was thinking maybe if we went back to Comcast um covering just the City Council meeting, it might be a little bit more cost-effective and an immediate fix to um our constituents' concern, because I, too, have had constituents say, "Are you still on council? I never see you um, you know, on on the camera." I That they may hear my voice, but they don't see me. So, you know, um I said, "Yeah, I'm still on council, but we're having some complications with our system."

Fred A. Neil

I hate to interrupt you, too. I hate to choose this, but we've got to move forward. Um then, it's certainly an issue we will take a look at as we put our budget together.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Well, and and and I do have other questions, but, you know, I'm not going to, for the sake of benefit of time, I'm not going to um I'm not going to elaborate on, but I'm going to I'm going to make this statement. Um I do think it's very imperative that we have more workshops and that we have quarterly review of budgetary items that is that is um going to affect impact our constituents' uh monthly bills and not be rushed through um very important uh discussion, uh because I feel like I'm being rushed through to the point and and I know and I know you might be upset—

Fred A. Neil

Yeah, well, we'll have we'll have a chance to talk a little bit after lunch, but—

Roy Sudler, Jr.

But, but, you know, but that's but I need my thoughts in real time, and I might be doing something else or have to leave, you know, and this is not my first or second or even third time saying we need more time. Um and I'm not going to keep beating a dead horse. I'm just going to get up and leave.

Public Commenter

leave, because I have other things to do as well, you know. And and so, you know, I'm at that point where you either you're going to do what we asked you to do, or you're just going to ignore us and do your own thing. And so therefore you're not working for us, you're working for you. So I know I am going to leave.

Fred A. Neil

I I under I understand and you're correct. We need to somehow get better communications with I know. I I appreciate that, sir. Thank you very much. And we do have we we will be doing, are doing Uh oh don't take care of them, please. Uh Okay, who's next?

City Staff

Ms. Hall has a question online.

Fred A. Neil

Oh, I'm sorry. Can we go ahead and do it? Who's got a question?

Donyale M. Hall

I have the question. Can you hear me?

Fred A. Neil

Yes.

Donyale M. Hall

Okay. Um it's more it's more a statement than a question. Um just a cautionary uh measure for integrating AI. I'd like to um just uh point your attention to uh using closed-source AI as opposed to open-source, just um so that we can maintain some security measures um in that environment. That was just my comment. Thanks so much.

Fred A. Neil

Yeah, definitely. Okay, this next is uh who we got? Library? Um. All right. Yay.

Brian Sylvester

All right. In the interest of time, I won't do much of a formal presentation, but I'm happy to answer questions about any of my slides. Uh if we could advance to the Direction from Council slide, please? Uh I will talk just very briefly about this one, because it is a little bit fiddly. This is something we've been talking about at Library Advisory Commission meetings. Uh so right now, as the system currently exists with Kent County, we receive about $155,000 a year from them through their library uh tax districts. Uh that is one of the smallest chunks of money that they distribute to any of the five libraries that are in Kent County.

Brian Sylvester

Uh it's a little bit complicated as to why, but basically a tax is being assessed to everybody that lives in the Capital School District, but does not live within city limits of Dover. That's where that money comes from, that $155,000. Uh it's based on uh 0.033 per $100 of assessed value. Uh so that was at our request. We didn't want to double-tax Dover residents, because they're already paying property tax, which goes towards support of our library.

Brian Sylvester

Uh the fiddly bit is that we keep track of where all of the library users live, and 64% of our current library card holders live in the unincorporated parts of Kent County. So we are predominantly serving that community, but we're not getting a huge amount of money back out of it to support our operations. Uh I don't necessarily have a solution to this issue. I just want to make you all aware of it. It's something that we've been talking about for several months. Uh Council President Neil is our uh liaison to the Library Advisory Commission. Uh so I just wanted to have it on everybody's radar that this is something that we've noticed, something that we're just looking at ways to do address. And with that, I'll just open it up to questions.

Fred A. Neil

Do you have questions? Anybody? Yes, ma'am.

Tricia K. Arndt

Just to clarify, so that tax is being levied by Kent County? Where is that coming from? Okay.

Brian Sylvester

Kent County Levy Court.

Tricia K. Arndt

Thank you.

Fred A. Neil

Okay. Well, we got another Okay.

David L. Anderson

Thank you. Um the um by the way, uh Council President Neil's definitely been advocating on that regard. Um uh we'll see, see where it goes, but we should all definitely support him uh and give our support to him on that. Um I have a uh just a question. Um how have you been uh

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

library seems every time I go seems to be running well, and it seems to be a safe, secure environment. Um what what what has the feedback been, um, from the customers to you? Um it I know you've implemented some new security and other things. Um are people feeling that that's um been effective or

Brian Sylvester

I believe so. The most recent survey we put out to the community, we scored uh it was like a 4.1 out of five stars on uh whether or not they felt we were a secure facility. Uh we have pretty good ratings on all of our social media followings, and Google reviews is pretty solid. Uh we try to keep an eye on those. Uh we're we haven't done a survey in 2025. We'll probably look to do one in 2026 just to get that kind of feedback, but from my perspective uh things seem to be going quite well.

Fred A. Neil

All right. Thank you, Brian. Let's move on. Who's next? Parks and Recreation, okay.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Thank you to the grounds crew for all the efforts the last few days, appreciate it.

Steve Shevock

You're welcome. You're welcome.

Steve Shevock

All right, so I'll start with the Parks and Recreation department is responsible for maintaining city-owned properties, parks, playgrounds, sports fields, as well as provide recreation for activities and activities for the public. Um I would say one of the biggest challenges we are currently facing um is our aging infrastructure as far as playgrounds go. That's going to be something that's on the radar moving forward. Um I'm working on coming up with a plan to get those on a schedule to be replaced. Um we have some that are getting towards the end of their life cycle, so that's going to be something we have to do in order to keep those. Um something to keep in mind with these playgrounds also is now we're getting into the ADA playgrounds, so that's going to be an additional cost as we go. Um, some of the other challenges we're starting to see: neighboring municipalities, the county, they're starting to offer some of the same recreation that we are. Um, I wouldn't say it's hurt our numbers, but we've definitely noticed we've kind of flatlined. So we're going to have to start looking at other options. Um, we've started making contact with these other groups to try to make sure our schedules don't overlap so we're not hurting each other. Um, that's been a a great help so far. Overall, I think the it's just to keep in mind the make sure we do the investment to keep these parks and facilities up to date so that they're to the standard that everybody expects. Um, our residents expect them to look great, as do I, so we want to keep them at that level. Does anybody have any questions?

Brian E. Lewis

I do have a question. Um this is something you never followed up with me, but uh you were allocated uh some moneys uh to go towards a new playground over in my district. As you recall, we had a public hearing and all. Yes. Uh I don't know, you know, what transpired because a poll was taken. Uh if, in fact, uh that's not going to proceed through, will that money um be put into next year's fiscal budget? Will it turn over, or what is your anticipation?

Steve Shevock

That's something that we'll have to figure out what would be the best place for those funds to go. Um did you receive the the statistics on that?

Brian E. Lewis

No.

Steve Shevock

I will I will double-check. You should have got that a long time ago. I will I will follow

Brian E. Lewis

I haven't heard anything back from you or anybody in your department uh since we had that public hearing on whether the people wanted the playground or they didn't want the playground. Uh, but

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

My question is, since, you know, this is a budgetary workshop is, uh, you were allocated money, okay, your department was.

Ryan Holmes

Yes.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Uh, so what's going to happen with that money?

Ryan Holmes

So those funds those funds, my suggestion would be if once we I talk to you, I'll make sure you get those numbers, um to figure out what we're going to do if we're going to move forward with that playground. If not, those numbers could be something that goes towards, um, just for instance we had a slide at Silver Lake that broke. Somebody kicked a hole through it. Um, that slide is like $12,000. So this is our second slide for the year that has broke. So those are funds that we could use to replace our existing issues, use to say.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

All right. No further questions.

Ryan Holmes

Okay.

Fred A. Neil

Good job, Ryan. Thank you. Moving on. Planning and Inspections. The acting Planning and Inspections Director and Assistant City Manager and other duties as assigned.

Sharon Duca

Good morning.

Fred A. Neil

Good morning.

Sharon Duca

Just wanted to check to make sure it still was. Um, I have had the pleasure of getting to know and working with the Department of Planning, Inspections, and Community Development for a little over 2 years now. Um, I have to say one of the best things about this crew is they are determined. Um, they have quite a few challenges before them, which I'm going to talk about one in particular today, but they have persevered and they are doing the best they can to meet the demand that's out there. Um, tying that together with our challenge, um, the biggest issue for uh planning, code enforcement, community development, building inspections, and um permitting and licensing is our staffing levels. Um, we have a budgeted staffing level of 18, and yet we have six vacancies, which is significant. Um, we have been spending um in order to make things meet, we've been spending some money on consultant services and building inspections um to help do the plan reviews for building permits. Uh, they have uh provided some help with inspections where needed. Um, and on the planning side, we have also used consultant assistance in order to get plans out. Um, and code enforcement has had some uh fluctuation in staff turnover. Um, but they have that's the biggest challenge for them is turnover, not opposed to actually trouble finding replacements. Uh, building inspections and planning, we have been struggling actually receiving applications of any sort. Um, I would say over the past 2 years we've received maybe 10 per position, um and some of those weren't even qualified. Uh, our biggest issue with plan review, building inspections, actual planning services is that we're competing with the private consulting world now. Um, a lot of municipalities are going to consultant services. We've been analyzing this over the past year or so to try to determine what the best avenues are. Um, we did make a strategic request for for the next budget year, um, which would result in a possibility of being expense neutral by maybe reevaluating a couple positions in inspections. Um, planning is a little more challenging um based upon the amount of services available, and we are continuing to look at that. Um, so basically that's what I want to focus on. Uh, we are also looking at more efficient software that could

Unknown Speaker

it helps staff out to be more productive and efficient. Um so I'd be more than willing to take any questions.

Council President

Council President Neil, did you have a question?

Fred A. Neil

No, I'm going to sort reserve my remarks because we have a guest that is going to be presenting to us and I do not want to interfere with that.

Council President

Okay.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Okay.

Unknown Speaker

Thank you.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Thank you. Um I asked uh Senator Paradee to be here if he could today for two reasons. One, Dover is his district and so we look to him for leadership and guidance and money um to to help the city out on a variety of things. Uh and secondly because this week the governor's presented his State of the State followed by his budget message yesterday and uh the I guess the theme of the budget message yesterday was cut the budget cut the budget cut the budget. Don't spend anywhere near what we what we what was allocated in previous years. So I really just have a simple question for him and it's kind of from his perspective how does he see the relationship between the state government and and its financial and other concerns and the needs of the city Dover. And

Trey Paradee

Wow, that's uh that's kind of an open-ended uh question. So um I didn't I didn't know quite what to expect walking in here. I just had it on my calendar as meeting with city officials. Um so I I guess I can start by saying this. Um so as I as I guess everyone heard or may may have read, um the governor did uh release his recommended budget this past week. Um we haven't really had a chance to dig into the details. Um but from a uh you know just kind of an overview and and what what was presented uh to the legislature and to the public yesterday, um honestly I was pleasantly surprised. I mean it his budget seemed like a good sensible uh approach. Um he did talk about the fact that there was going to be some cuts in in different areas. Um quite honestly we have not seen those yet, but we're going to start getting into that. So on Tuesday the Joint Finance Committee uh begins its deliberations. For those of you who uh might not be completely familiar with how the Joint Finance Committee works, um and how the state's budget process works, the way it the way it works is the govern- the governor presents what is what we refer to as the GRB, that the governor's recommended budget. And um once that is and I literally just got that yesterday afternoon. It's a document about this thick. Um so I haven't had a chance to to really go through it yet. Um but the Joint Finance Committee is comprised of 12 members of the legislature, um six from the Senate, uh six from the House, and throughout the throughout the month of February we have um representatives from all the different state agencies, all the uh cabinet secretaries and a lot of key division heads that come in uh before the Joint Finance Committee and and essentially defend their their budget and and also, you know, occasionally ask for other things that maybe the governor didn't see fit to include in his budget. Um so we haven't seen what cuts that he's talking about, but I I will say um there's there's not a lot of new significant spending. Um and one of the I think one of the things that kind of jumped out at

Senator

me that I thought was important that is, and that is meaningful to the city of Dover, is the Governor's recommended budget does have, I believe the number is somewhere around roughly $230 million that is cash to the bond bill, right?

Senator

And so it's the the bond bill where all the spending for capital projects, also like Municipal Street Aid, is in is in the bond bill. Um uh and I think there's the Community Transportation Funds that that I'm able to designate for the city, all that is in the bond bill.

Senator

Um and from a historical perspective, sending $230 million to the bond bill, you know, historically speaking, that's a that's a huge deal. That's a that's a pretty big deal.

Senator

Um I I will say, over the last few years, we've had a couple years where it was close to $800 million, right? So so we're down a little bit from where we were coming out of the pandemic in terms of, you know, the total amount of cash going to bond. Um but again, you know, from a historical perspective, it's a it's a it's a good chunk of money.

Senator

Um all that being said, the governor's budget also does include roughly $160 million in in fees and taxes. Um my understanding of those fees and taxes, though, and what was presented to us yesterday, was that is that that is on the uh on the corporate side, that it is not meant to uh affect individual uh households, uh taxpayers. Not does not uh affect personal income tax.

Senator

Um so, you know, we'll take a look at what that fee package looks like. Um it looks like that would include a uh an increase of $50 on the LLC tax, taking it from 300 to 350. Uh there's now well over a million LLCs that are registered in Delaware. Um I'm not sure what the breakdown is between in-state and out-of-state.

Senator

Um but, you know, it could have some you know, that's a little bit of an impact on some small businesses uh that that are located in Delaware. And you also have some folks, you know, for instance, real estate investors who they might have, you know, 5, 10, 12 uh rental properties, sometimes they will put each rental property into a separate LLC. Um so there might be some folks who who are a little upset about that, and we'll have those conversations over the next couple months in the legislature.

Senator

Um but um so in terms of that, you know, that good chunk of money going to the bond bill, some of that is going to depend on, you know, whether that fee package gets gets passed. Um but uh gosh, other than that, are are there any questions from members of the panel or anything in particular that you're concerned or looking at? Yeah. Uh Councilman Anderson?

David L. Anderson

Uh thank you, Senator. The I want to first thank you for your time and and for uh for sharing with us. Um I guess uh my question deals with the the great work that you've done with the uh the safety funding,

Senator

Yeah.

David L. Anderson

and um and uh one, um sounds like there'll be no change in that uh dollar amount. And two, uh you're probably aware that we're we have a little struggle with language

Unknown Speaker

enabling language this year as opposed to last year, and we're hoping that we can get get that fixed. Anyway, thank you, sir.

Trey Paradee

Yep.

Trey Paradee

Yeah. So, um, for for those of you who who might not be aware, um I think it's for the last two or three years, uh it's two? Two years, three years? Just the past two years. Um we were able to get some additional funding uh for the City of Dover. I believe it was one 1.6 million?

Unknown Speaker

Right.

Trey Paradee

And kind of the genesis of that, if um you think back, um I mean this goes back 5, 6, 7 years ago, something like that. Um the city was really, um, incurring a lot of cost related to providing services to the college campuses that that we have in Dover, right? And you remember there was, um, talk in in this room at one point, uh a few years ago, about instituting some sort of like non-profit tax, um, and that didn't really go over uh so well with a lot of people. But it but it was really to help, you know, the fact I saw the uh uh Fire Chief uh here, Dave Carey, um you know one of the things I remember reading in the paper at that time was, you know, the fire department was having to make 300-plus calls a year up to the DSU campus. And that was before, um, DSU had acquired the Wesley campus. Um at the same time, you know, we now have a University of Delaware property. We have, obviously, DelTech, DSU, DSU Downtown. Um the city is having to provide not just uh not just fire, obviously, but also police protection. Although, you know, DSU does have their own police force, City of Dover is oftentimes having to uh respond to things that might be going on both their campuses. Um, so going back a couple years ago in the legislature, the City of Newark was having the same issue, and they were pretty upset uh about, you know, the fact that they were, you know, as a city they were being asked to, you know, keep all these young people safe. Uh, young people who generally were not contributing to the city tax base. So, um, we came up with this idea of creating a fund primarily to help the two cities in our state that provide that have to that have to keep all these young college kids safe, right? Um, so that's that's where that came from. Now things have changed a little bit with uh with Newark. Um they do not receive money um in that in that manner anymore um because they were able to get a, what is it, a $50 per student per per semester fee for the University of Delaware students. And I think that gives them, um, I think I think that number approaches like $2 million uh that goes to the City of Newark uh that that way. Um, so anyhow we we have, you know, this past budget we were or the current budget year that we're in, we were able to maintain that $1.6 million in additional funding for the city. And again, that was really to offset that cost. Um, while not necessarily tying it to a specific, um, program that that you might be running. Again, there you know, there is a cost of running these, um, you know, to running the fire department to these different campuses. There's

Trey Paradee

the cost to um uh running police. You know, arguably, um if the city was not tasked with uh providing these services to the campuses, they would not need as many police. They would not need as many police cars. They would not need as many um uh you know, resources from the fire department. So, that's kind of where that where that came from. And it's I know it's very important to the council members who are here to in terms of balancing your budget. Um it's important to me to make sure that you have all the resources that that you need. And, so that's certainly a priority for me. Um as as you know, I I am chairing the Joint Finance Committee this year for the state. So, it does kind of put me into a position to, you know, to So, I I can't I can't promise anything, but that is certainly a priority for me.

Fred A. Neil

Thank you.

Fred A. Neil

Uh thank you, uh Mr. Uh Trey, we have a serious problem uh based on a broken justice system that has affected you directly and is direct- affects us. We're not being able to uh take care of people who cannot take care of themselves because of addiction, mental illnesses, what have you. They can't help themselves, and we can't hold them acc- uh accountable for what their actions are, which are basically destroying properties uh that are affecting the tax base. Uh as uh people are worried about uh these people coming in, using their porches, using our streets for toilets and other things. I know you're aware of it, but that's something that has to be addressed at the uh legislative level uh because if it isn't, then we cannot do what we have to do to expand our tax base because it's being destroyed on a continual basis. And a lot of our people who are coming here don't realize that what we have to do to have it done. Uh we've already talked about, I've sent you information on housing which we will not discuss. I will also be reaching out to you uh on a program that I hope that we can work out a match from the city and maybe the county. I was hoping to have information now, but I don't. But I'll send that to you as soon as I have that on a program that will help people who are coming out of prison and actually put them to work to help us in the cleanup that has to come on now. So, I leave that with you in terms of what can we do to fix this this uh justice system that permits people to continually go over and over again doing the same kind of damage that they're doing now even though they can't help themselves. What about this? I yield.

Trey Paradee

Yeah. So, I think I think probably everybody in the room is is um is aware. You know, this this summer, we we really experienced a pretty dramatic uh uptick in homelessness in the city. And and at the same time starting, I guess, in late June, uh just this rash of break-ins and um theft and other damages uh being caused throughout the city. Uh I'm not immune, and the first week of July, I went to visit my son who now lives in Montana, and I came back and found out that a whole group of folks apparently had a week-long party in my office while I was away and uh put about $8,000

Trey Paradee

tons of water into my basement, um, which as you can imagine caused quite a bit of damage. So I, um, it - but to get, you know, to really get to your question, uh, councilman, it - it's really a matter of - of resources. Now, going back a couple months ago, um, actually probably back into September, uh, myself and - and Todd Stonesifer, who many of you, uh, know here, who's, you know, is, uh, the - the president of the, uh, Downtown Dover, um, Partnership - thank you - um, met with Kathy Jennings, the attorney general, and her team, and to express the frustration that a lot of - a lot of us who, uh, live and work in the city, um, were having with just this - this explosion of homelessness and the crimes that were associated with it. And one of the things that she, uh, that, uh, the attorney general expressed to, uh, to Todd and I is that they - they simply do not have enough resources in the courts. And - and one of the things that the attorney general, uh, explained to Todd is that there - there are days where they are just overwhelmed with cases, and in the Court of Common Pleas in particular, where, uh, as she was explaining to us, you know, "Hey, there - there are days where a prosecutor might be assigned 40 or more cases in one day." And she said, you know, in those 40 cases, there might be four or five that involve a violent crime where somebody literally got physically hurt in some - some way. And she said, you know, those cases are a priority. They have to be prosecuted, and unfortunately, there's only so much time in the day, and so a lot of cases were being nolle prossed. And I know that's very, um, frustrating to - to residents who have been affected by crime. I know that it's very frustrating to the, uh, police officers from, uh, you know, from the the the newest privates all the way up to the chief, because I've had had those conversations. And I know it's very frustrating for the police officers who, you know, might arrest somebody for a break-in, and, you know, they're finding out weeks later that that case has been dropped for - for whatever reason. And, um, so, uh, you know, again going back to priorities, uh, that I have going into the budget year, is I want to get Kathy Jennings a couple more prosecutors for - for, uh, for Kent County, and maybe that will help to alleviate some of that. Um, we're also, um, you know, the the other part of the court system is, is you have to have, um, you have to have, uh, uh, you know, good prosecutors, but you also have to have, um, good attorneys on the the other side of the equation, too, the the Office of Defense Services. Um, and that has been an issue over the last few years, uh, in terms of making sure that there's enough attorneys on both sides so that these cases can provide - can move forward. So we have been working on addressing that. Um, there have been significant, uh, pay increases, and - and it's, you know, you think, you know, you think, "Well gosh, you know, nobody wants to, uh," you know, no- there aren't many people in this - in this society that have a lot of sympathy for attorneys, but the reality is our court systems have to have, you know, we In order to have a functioning system, we have to have them. The problem we had, you know, going back about 3 years ago, is a starting salary for an attorney, um, for the state, whether they're in the Office of, uh, Defense Services or on the prosecution

Speaker

-tion side was about $65,000 a year. Well, a good a good young attorney coming out of law school could could could earn double that in the private sector. So, again, we address that. Hopefully, we can get them a couple more judges and and get more of these cases prosecuted. Um, is there is there any water? Anybody have an extra water, by any chance? Let me grab one.

Speaker

Um, so the other thing uh I wanted to talk about that's kind of related to all this uh, and again this ties into uh yesterday's presentation uh on the budget from the governor and and some other and some other recent things that have been in the paper about this, is this uh rural health initiative grant that the that the state got. Um, there's there's a lot in the press, if, you know, if you just do a, you know, Google search you can probably get some more information. But, um, that's going to work out to it's, um, oh gosh, it's 8- $860, $870 million, um, over 5 years that's supposed to be paid to the state from the federal government, and that is to be used specifically, um, for, um, health-related services in Kent and Sussex, right?

Speaker

So, one of the things that the governor has been talking about is establishing a Hope Center somewhere in Kent County and somewhere in Sussex County. Um, and for those of you who aren't aware, um, a few years ago, I guess it's been about 5 years ago, when Governor Meyer was the county executive for New Castle County, you know, they had that influx of, um, of federal funding coming out of the pandemic. I'm, I, I believe it came from ARPA, or or one of those programs. But New Castle County went and bought a Sheraton hotel that was, you know, right on 95, and essentially converted that into a help center to deal with homelessness, to deal with drug addiction, et cetera.

Speaker

So, um, I'm not sure exactly what that's going to look like, but my my point of bringing this up is the state is going to have some additional resources to bring to the table specifically targeted at dealing with addiction, uh dealing uh dealing with homelessness, and, um, and hopefully, you know, working with the city and and other folks, you know, we can make make some headway.

Speaker

It's it's, um, you know, these are problems that didn't just pop up overnight. These are problems that, um, you know, quite honestly are are plaguing every small city pretty much in in the uh in the country. Um, matter of fact, I mean, you know, I mentioned I'd been out this summer to visit my son in Montana. Um, you know, the city where he lives, Missoula, um, a little bit bigger than Dover, they they have the same same issues there. Um, you know, you'd see it on their streets as well. Um, and obviously, a lot of it is connected directly to to drug addiction. And so, um, it didn't it didn't uh it didn't happen overnight, it can't be fixed overnight. It's going to It's going to take some time.

Fred A. Neil

Well, thank you. Uh, we know this is a long-term thing. I think one of the biggest problems is that the people who come here do not understand the full uh impact of everything that's happening, because people are not being held accountable. They do it again. And so therefore, in order to preserve, and in order to get the new tax base which is going to help us, which I'll talk about a little bit later uh to the group. But again, thank you for what's happening. We'll keep-

Fred A. Neil

keep you informed, because we definitely need that Move It Forward, because it the impact could not come on our citizens. When I look at the records of how much we've spent, and the fact that in three years we have not raised the property tax rate is utterly amazing. And they're asking us, and don't do it again, even though our commitments are far exceeding already what what that money is is going to bring in if if we don't do that. But I thank you very much. You have been a hero and a champion to the city. Thank you, sir.

Sean Paradee

Thank you, thank you, Council President. Appreciate that. Thank you.

Fred A. Neil

I yield.

Brian E. Lewis

Thank you. Um, I I just have two uh suggestions for you, Mr. Paradee, that maybe you could bring back and tell your colleagues, uh, and see if we could possibly get any funding. But, uh, first and foremost, um, with respect to the Hope Center type program, I think that's an excellent program. I I saw it up in New Castle and and how it functions. And, um, in the city of Dover, we currently have, well, one vacant building that may be a perfect place, which is the old Morris Correctional Center. And also, when the family court moves out into their new building, I don't know if the governor, um, has any ideas of what he's going to put in there, but that's just an idea, maybe, to put a Hope Center there, because we do have the building.

Sean Paradee

Yeah, I I think I think those are, um, probably the the most obvious candidates. I'm not sure that they're necessarily the, um, the the best candidates. I, um, I mean, I have heard with the family court, the old family court building, that there's just a lot of problems with the the building. Um, the Morris Correctional, um, you know, it's an old prison that was built what, probably a hundred years ago. Um, I and I've actually was in inside of that, um. I wasn't held there. [laughter] But no, I was I I've been inside of that building before, um, because I I taught some uh financial literacy classes there, uh shoot, going back probably uh 15 years or so ago. Uh, did a did a series of financial uh literacy classes there that for folks who were being held there. Um, and so when when that's been brought up before, you know, the the, um, you know, it'd be a pretty I think it'd be pretty costly to convert, you know, old jail cells like that into livable space. So, um, and for some reason, you know, I knew Corrections has been they've, you know, whenever that's been brought up, Corrections has always kind of rebuffed that and said, 'Oh, well, we need that building for storage and training.' Um, but um but I but I think it's also important that, um, you know, that that we hear, you know, from nearby residents and nearby business owners, um, you know, how they would feel about, you know, those those properties being used for that purpose. Um, but those those are I I think those would be, you know, obvious candidates in terms of having a conversation just because, again, they are big buildings. Um, one is, you know, vacant, one will soon be vacant. Um, and and I'm not really sure what else, you know, might might be available around town.

Brian E. Lewis

Yeah, it was just uh something I wanted to throw out there, but I'm sure it's already kind of uh been going through the halls of Leg Hall at one point or another. Uh, my my second idea is uh to piggyback off what, um, Mr. Neil was discussing with regard to public safety and the courts and the

Brian E. Lewis

the AG's office. And of course, we would definitely require funding from the legislature because this would be costly, but and to to also elaborate Mr. Hugg and I had discussion on this about I guess a year and a half ago. And that was starting an alderman's court in the city of Dover. And by doing that, it may take the burden off the AG and a lot of the judges. I mean, we can have it right here in this chamber, but it's something maybe you would be willing to go back and discuss with your colleagues. Of course, you know, we could have one Deputy Attorney General assigned specifically and it would address all city issues.

Trey Paradee

Yeah, and and I'm I'm probably not a you know, an expert on how to go about doing that. But But obviously, for instance, city of Newark still has their alderman's court. And And my understanding is that it It is And And don't quote me on this, but my understanding is that it's been a moneymaker for that For that city, and and and has worked very well for them, you know, especially in terms of, you know, dealing with some of the minor petty stuff that that happens when you have a large population of, you know, 16 17,000 college kids. Right. Who And, you know, and I was one of those college kids at one time in in the city of Newark. And of course, I was a perfect angel back then. But But, I mean, that That would be an interesting concept. I I I'm not sure. Does city of Rehoboth still have theirs? Yeah, I had to I I will admit I did have to, you know, talk about a speeding ticket down there one day a number of years back. But are there any other towns that still have them? Not really sure. It's just just Newark and Rehoboth, right?

Brian E. Lewis

Yeah.

Trey Paradee

Um, that's an interesting concept, and um, you know, um, you know, again, and, you know, the way um Dover has kind of evolved in the way um, you know, we've seen the growth at DSU, and um um, you know, that that might be helpful.

Brian E. Lewis

Thank you.

Trey Paradee

I think that one died.

Robin R. Christiansen

Well, first, thank you for taking the time to be here today. I appreciate it. A couple of comments that I I want to make. I notice that the governor's budget has continuing money for the drinking water and and wastewater funds and some of the things that we rely on for for some of our capital projects. But the only comment I guess I have is that I did not see the word energy specifically in his budget. Even though there's 17 or 18 bills in the General Assembly that deal with that subject, so a little concerned about what the state's policy might be towards energy, which obviously affects the city of Dover.

Robin R. Christiansen

Does anybody have any comments they want to make while we have the Senator here before we let him loose? Mr. Fowles, would you like to?

Fowles

I'm a retired correction officer. We have a lot of crime here. It's not drug-related. We have hard-working police officers who risk their lives daily. I think it's a slap in their face. They make an arrest, and then, not even a week later, they're catching a suspect with a gun. You know, cashless bails. You know, there's some people that need to be in jail until their court hearing because they're dangerous. I'm saying, if someone's got a parking ticket, or behind on child support, that's a different issue. I'm talking about make the streets safe. And I give a plug to Council President Neil. Accountability. I'm hell-a-

Brian E. Lewis

kind of cool. If I do race down Loockerman, get a speeding ticket, I got to pay that. If I don't pay that, I'm going to wind up in front of a magistrate, probably in jail, get fined. Our police officers are risking their lives, and I'm hearing from the chief and everything else that they can't prosecute prostitution. If we have laws on the books, why aren't we prosecuting? If we're not going to enforce, let's get them off the books. I'm worried about our police officers. They arrest suspect A Monday, on Saturday they got a shootout with this guy because he now has a gun. It could have been because he robbed somebody. These are things we've got to look at.

Presenter

Yeah, I I I totally I'm I'm with you um on that. And and again, kind of going back to what I was saying about getting um getting our courts properly staffed, making sure that we have enough judges to handle uh the caseload, making sure that there's, you know, enough prosecutors, making sure that there's enough attorneys in the Office of Defense Services. Um again, we're you know we're making some headway there, but um, you know, like like you, I um you know, I've gotten to know the chief real well. I've gotten to speak to a lot of the uh rank-and-file officers, and I know how how frustrated um they are. On on the sentencing, um I you know, I see former Representative uh Andria Bennett back there, she can tell you, you know, over the last um decade or more, that's been a um I think a a real struggle um for the legislature um and just trying to get sentencing um right, getting bail reform right. Um and and there's, you know, folks on both sides of that equation uh that have very strong opinions on um on uh, you know, how, you know, how to best approach that. Um and interestingly, just this past week we had uh a bill by Senator uh Marie Pinkney to um essentially reconstitute a a sentencing committee that apparently had existed in the past and had just kind of, you know, fallen apart. But the idea is to try to get uh folks in the all in the same room, you know, from law enforcement as well as some of the um, you know, reform advocates, etc. Try to get them in the room um and uh uh and people from corrections as well to, you know, just try to make sure that we're doing a better job of putting people behind bars who truly believe you know deserve to be behind bars. Um and uh and then at the same time, just, you know, treating people fairly who who might deserve um a second chance. Yeah.

Jason Lyon

Good afternoon. Um, I'm just going to jump right to our challenges slide for the Department of Public Works. Um, one of the one of the biggest challenges we have is lack of public understanding on what we do and what it takes to get done. Uh this this um it can be frustrating for uh staff. It can be frustrating for our admin that have to answer the phones. Um, they're going through a real tough time this week once we came back to work with everything and um um, I'm not really sure how to resolve it. We've tried some things. We have these things called briefings on the internet which uh talk about our programs such as street sweeping, leaf collection, um the mulch giveaway, uh spring clean-up, and it basically outlines everything we do and what, you know, uh certain things like that. We also have a story map that actually goes through each department, or you can jump to each department and it gives as much information as we can. We've also done - um, Councilman Lewis has gotten up -

City Staff

but uh we've also done a demonstration uh for Councilman Lewis's um constituents out in the field with a street sweeper. They had a lot of questions. Um and we went out there and actually had the sweeper and went up and down and described everything, when you use water, how much water, and and all of that. So, um, and actually Mr. Faus was at that presentation sitting behind me. Uh,

Brian E. Lewis

Very good presentation.

City Staff

Thank you. Um, so that that's a big a big challenge we have. Uh, and uh, maybe also council could help a little bit with um explain, you know, learning maybe a little more and explaining uh to their constituents. I know they have. There's been council people in in front of me right now that um have reached out and then went to their constituents and explained. Sometimes it's not good enough, they come back to me. That's fine with me, but it it it really helps us. Um, number two is budgets. And I'm it's simple things that aren't seen I think, like our uh concrete shaving program where we go out and we actually uh the sidewalks that are lifted up that aren't lifted up because of trees because we can't get a guarantee from the contractor. He gives us three years guarantee on anything they shave, so if it if it changes, they'll come back and fix it. Um, and in the past two years, it has gone up $6,000 to to just accomplish what we did two years ago in footage of concrete. And we try every year in the budget to kind of, you know, incrementally raise it, but now we're doing less than we could do just two years ago and prior to that we really didn't see much of an increase at all. Uh, another project, something we do is uh crack sealing, where we go out into the roads. You've probably seen it, it's almost like a it's a machine and it kind of looks like tar that you know, fixes the uh cracks in the roads, and that extends the road uh life. That um just renting the machine has gone up exponentially, and um the and we have to sign multiple waivers if this happens, whatever, it has to come back cleaner than when we got it, all this stuff. Um, and uh it's not as much the material costing more money, it was just the renting of the machine. Um, the last thing I have here is hiring, and this is really unique to sanitation and the entry-level MEO 1 position. Um, we've had a two uh positions open um for the longest time. I got an email just as I was getting ready to come here that it looks like we filled one and they're going to start on Monday. Um, but with my research and what I've I've I've looked at, I've um investigated two uh private tra- trash haulers. One I talked to, one I just uh researched online. And uh things have changed. The city um probably going back 10 years, 10 years plus, people went to the city to get their CDLs, and they might stay for a few years to get experience, then they went to private, or they might like it, saw the benefit package was better than a, you know, a private company and stayed, cuz the private companies wanted somebody with a CDL. Well, they're now doing what we were doing, and they're they're hiring people that don't have CDLs, they're getting they're helping them get their CDL, and um training them just

City Staff

like we you know we used to do, and we still do. I know the one uh one uh private company that I talked to, they wouldn't tell me how much, but they said they're they're starting them at uh higher wage than we are, which is about $20 and some cents an hour. The other one that I didn't talk to, but did research on, they're starting them at $26 an hour. So I think that's where we're losing uh

City Staff

and we you know we need to get the entry-level people so we can move them up and keep you know we have MEO 1, 2, 3, crew leader, and then field supervisor. And it's much easier always to move somebody up. They know the trash routes, they know they know how the city works, than to go ahead and uh hire, let's say, uh somebody out of house for an upper-level position. We'll do it, but

City Staff

um those are the really the three biggest challenges I've seen. And um in sanitation it it is it is difficult. We're just not getting quality applicants, or applicants that can pass the background check. So that's all I have if there's any questions.

Andre M. Boggerty

Thank you. Uh is there an opportunity uh if if there was a way to get somebody who couldn't pass a background check somewhat bonded, or that for certain partic- positions like sanitation?

City Staff

That would uh I think Naomi could possibly answer that. I really don't, or I don't know the insurance um the insurance ramifications to any of that, or we just follow what, you know, the protocol for hire.

Andre M. Boggerty

The HR process basically.

City Staff

Yes, yes.

Donyale M. Hall

And there's implications with that as well, right? When you hire someone who doesn't pass the background, and making sure that—

Naomi Poole

No, it's fine. There's implications of hiring somebody who doesn't pass the background. It could be um their driving record. It could be various reasons. Um and from an insurance standpoint as you talked to, we have to make sure that we are in compliance and making sure that we uphold um their standards in our hiring process. So there's implications in making sure that we we keep that in mind.

Andre M. Boggerty

So it did does that include um you know, like substance like urinalysis, you know, stuff like that? It's it's all coupled in there with that?

Naomi Poole

It's all coupled in, correct.

Andre M. Boggerty

Okay, I I can see where that would be an an issue. Um but the just the background, if it's a criminal background, does that does the city view that as a showstopper?

Naomi Poole

It depends on what the crime is, and yes.

Andre M. Boggerty

Okay.

Naomi Poole

Um when we start getting into felonies and what that means, yes. From a protection standpoint for the city, we do pause.

Andre M. Boggerty

Okay. All right, thank you. I yield.

Tricia K. Arndt

What about um internships or work-study with with trade schools, similar to what the IT department is doing with internships every summer? Kind of grooming folks to to move up?

City Staff

Yeah, so um I don't think in sanitation we really investigated that that much. There is a lot we do have temps that come in um and help help us out during certain seasons, but usually they're temps for a reason.

City Staff

Um and uh whether it's they can't get their CDL or or I don't I don't I want to speculate. Um but we really, and again I guess that would be an insurance kind of thing cuz they're the MEO 1s are the ones that are on the back of the trucks. Um they, you know, they'll get training on the routes um they so

Jason Lyon

sometimes it will be, you know, upfront with the driver depending on, you know, what route they're running. Um, but uh, again I can't speak much on the insurance, but it it can be dangerous. I mean, you're going into landfills, you're picking up uh 30 gallon or less uh yard waste containers or trash containers and throwing into the back of a truck. Um, so it it's it's not a uh easy job.

Tricia K. Arndt

Yeah, I would want $26 an hour to do that as well. Thank you.

Fred A. Neil

Well, basically I'm going to reiterate what you've already heard, and that is number one, what a fantastic job your people have done.

Jason Lyon

Thank you.

Fred A. Neil

Please thank them for us. They're heroes. They've gone out in this bitter, bitter cold and have worked hard for doing it. And they did not get two days off when the rest of us were at home working, cuz I don't think there's any head of a department that wasn't doing something when they were at home that was actually working from home. But they were working. But your guys were out there doing it, and thank you again. I yield.

Brian E. Lewis

Thank you. I do. Uh I don't know if this question was already asked because I had to leave the room for a minute, but we're talking about challenges, um can you elaborate a little on contracting out? Um would it be effective um as far as the budget's concerned to be contracting out to some companies um since we are having these challenges, opposed to not?

Jason Lyon

Are you referring to sanitation, or are you—

Brian E. Lewis

I'm referring to snow plowing, sanitation.

Jason Lyon

So, um snow plowing um we did uh the for this storm, um we did utilize a contractor to help. Um when it comes to uh the like I said, the um the grinding of the sidewalks, we utilize a a contractor.

Jason Lyon

Um when it comes to sanitation, we'll utilize a temp service, but um there's been studies done in the past, I think the most recent by Miss Mitchell, that uh really they can't provide the same service we do. Um and uh there is an element of knowing the routes and the days and things of that nature, and the certain there's intricacies all over the place where, you know, you go down an alley here, you don't go down an alley there, you know. Um they usually put their trash cans here. So it it's it's it's a lot of institutional knowledge, a lot of learning that these these drivers have to do, which it's not easy to just dump off on a contractor.

Brian E. Lewis

Gotcha. Um how about collaborating with the county as far as um who they use or?

Jason Lyon

Well, they uh use Republic and Casella, and Casella is our current uh recycling contractor, and from what I understand and prior to that it was Republic Services was our um recycling contractor, and both of them have said the only way they can make it affordable to uh actually uh for us to, you know, hire them is because they do have the Kent County contract and um they're here already.

Brian E. Lewis

Have you reached out to any other municipalities, uh county governments, other states uh to see what they're doing as far as the same challenges we have?

Jason Lyon

Um no, not the challenges, not when it comes to sanitation. Um just private uh cuz that's where we see the people going is the private um entities.

Brian E. Lewis

Gotcha. Uh what—

Brian E. Lewis

With respect to, um, street cleaning, uh, recently I read somewhere, uh, or heard that, um, there's going to be some deviations or proposed deviations. Is is that true, and if so, could you explain?

Jason Lyon

Um, there's nothing new. Um, it's just, um we So, when, um, leaf season comes into effect, our, uh The only time we use our, uh, street sweepers is to, uh, aid the, um, leaf collection if possible. That all depends on the the size of the piles and, um, the amount of employees we have on any given day. So, the, uh there is no street sweeping going on then. And then when that ends, um, until mid-March, we suspend the night sweeping because of freezing temperatures, and we have to use water. If we don't use the water, we've we did that presentation. Um,

Jason Lyon

um, you know, it it's that's a dust storm everywhere, and it and and the water can aid in the pickup of the uh the stuff on the road. So, mid-March, we will go as long as the temperatures are, uh, you know, back up to normal at night. We we reinstitute our night sweeping. Um, we try, when the night sweeping isn't, um, going on, to get both routes during the day, um, but only if the temperatures are above freezing and we can use water.

Brian E. Lewis

I know you and I had discussed this, uh, extensively, particularly last year, pertaining to street cleaning. Um, and I know you had indicated to me that, um, there were some issues with hiring people, okay, for that particular department.

Jason Lyon

Um, yeah, that we haven't we we haven't had any issue. The So, the division that we are having all the issues with is entry-level Sanitation. We've been able to keep Streets and Stormwater uh pretty, um, staffed. You know, we we haven't had issues with them.

Brian E. Lewis

Okay.

Jason Lyon

I think back when I talked to you, there was there was people out for, uh, workman's comp or or on light duty, which caused us We I I do remember the the gentleman that came in wasn't a normal sweeper. Um, but, uh, now we haven't had any issues in those divisions.

Brian E. Lewis

Okay. Um, in respect to, uh, keeping up with time constraints, uh, that's all I have right now. Thank you.

Jason Lyon

Thank you.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

All right. Um, and, uh, I also, uh, thank the crews for the great job they've done as well as the the others as well. Um, MS4, uh, permits, um, are there any surprises that we have, uh, cuz that that obviously can have a budgetary impact. Are we are there any surprises you foresee for us on that regarding the, uh, the the Municipal Storm Sewer, da-da-da, MS4, right?

Jason Lyon

That's why we just say MS4. [laughter]

Jason Lyon

Um, not not right now. Um, so it's a it's a 5-year permit,

Staff

press the councils if we don't comply for it, the fines are uh no less than $1,000 and no more than $10,000 a day. So, that's why we really try to stick to the permit and work hard at um uh maintaining everything.

Kate Mills

I am, yes. I'm substituting for Jason. Uh, Kate Mills, assistant director, water and wastewater. Uh, good afternoon, I think we're at that point now. Uh, so I just, I think council is aware of all the different challenges we face, um just with the different projects and requirements we bring um to utility uh committee and and uh council meetings, but just a brief overview of the challenges. For our water side, um we have old water mains, so discolored water is is still something that we're um we're faced with. Um, and and we're trying to correct that as as much as we can, as quickly as we can. Um, there as we get more um development in the city, there's potential for for higher water demand. Um, another instance of that could be, um you know, with marijuana, there might be cultivation happening in our city and and that would be uh could potentially be a a high water demand for us. Um, and then as as you guys are all well aware, the regulatory requirements that we have for lead and copper, PFAS, um cross-connection control, you know, all those things can can change quickly. Um, so just being able to pivot to whatever the state or um the federal, at the federal level, of if we need to pivot a certain way to to meet a newer version of those regulations, that's something that we have to stay on top of. Um, and then on the wastewater side, tracking and trying to to work best to improve the inflow and infiltration in our in our wastewater conveyance system. So those are some of the um the bigger the bigger challenges for us. Um, and then just overall project costs: equipment, labor, material, every year those those costs go up for us. Uh, so that's that's something else that we, you know, we just have to keep in mind when we plan these projects. Um, and then just jumping to uh direction from council or or feedback from council. So we we have a we have a template. We we know each year what we want to do. We want to replace water main, we want to um make sure we're doing wastewater projects, um upgrading pump stations, um you know, very various items like that that we we always bring for for council approval. Uh, I think we're pretty consistent with that, and then any additional projects that we come up with when when talking with staff about some additional needs we may have. So really just looking for feedback from council. The amount of water main that we're replacing, is that sufficient? Is that something that um you'd like for us to increase, keeping in mind the budget that we have, um the number of wastewater upgrade projects? And then what we're going to do with the water and wastewater rate increase? So, um we had a a rate increase in fiscal year '26, we are not uh including that in the fiscal year '27 budget. So what is that going to be, or it's not implemented, so what is that going to be moving forward? Um, and then are we going to, would council like us to explore any any bond-funded bond-funded projects in the future? Um, so so those are things

City Staff

things to keep in mind. Uh and then, just just one last thing is I think we we've done a good job with uh public notification using um like HyperReach for any uh water main problems. Um we definitely make sure it's a goal of ours to call back customers who have complaint calling with complaints as quickly as possible. Our goal is within 30 minutes, and it's it's definitely within that day, um if not that 30 minutes. So those are just things that I just wanted to point out that we're really working hard to make sure we we keep open communication with the public, um to not just meet the regulatory requirements, but um just to have a good relationship with the public when they call in. They can they can have some ease of mind. Um so with that, I just if if anybody has any questions, I can ask. If I can't answer them, um then I'll I'll definitely make sure to talk with Jason about it and and come back to you all.

Fred A. Neil

I think maybe people can smell the food or something. All right.

Brian E. Lewis

I have some follow-up questions for PD. Is there a representative here?

Paul Kuntzi

Good afternoon, Paul Kuntzi with the police department.

Fred A. Neil

Good morning, Deputy Chief.

Brian E. Lewis

Uh I just have four ques- questions here. Uh maybe you can answer, if not, uh I think Ms. Marni's in the audience or you Mr. Hugg. Uh the first question that I have and I don't believe I got around to asking it at the meeting last Thursday was um and this pertains to the Police Academy, uh what is the cost to run the Dover Police Academy?

Paul Kuntzi

Okay, great question. Uh Councilman Sudler Sudler emailed us yesterday, about two days ago, requesting that information. So we were going to have it for today, but we just couldn't have it. There's just too much information to get together. So we will have that next week, and that is being worked on right now.

Brian E. Lewis

Okay, awesome. Um what kind of uh revenue is it bringing in to the police department?

Paul Kuntzi

Yeah, all that information will be next week when we have that uh put together for you.

Brian E. Lewis

Uh okay, so you should know this question as the Deputy Chief: what is the standard cost to train uh per officer?

Paul Kuntzi

I do not know that answer right now. Apologize. But we'll have that all together for you next week with that package.

Brian E. Lewis

How about this one: How many officers has the city produced since its establishment?

Paul Kuntzi

I think we're right around over 30, between 30 and 35 officers. I believe we've trained 35 Dover officers, and we've retained 30. So it's significantly higher than if we send them somewhere else.

Brian E. Lewis

Gotcha. So since its establishment, uh we the City of Dover have ascertained 30 officers?

Paul Kuntzi

Yes.

Brian E. Lewis

Okay.

Paul Kuntzi

Again, we'll have all that And I don't want to give you wrong numbers, so we'll have all that information for you next week in a package.

Brian E. Lewis

Okay. Um that's all I have then. Thank you.

Paul Kuntzi

Thank you.

Fred A. Neil

Well, basically, Chief, um I presume that every I attend the graduations and they're uh all the throughout the entire uh state. We have uh trainees that are coming to us, and they do pay a fee to the city for that purpose.

Paul Kuntzi

Yes.

Fred A. Neil

And so those figures will be included.

Paul Kuntzi

Yeah, they'll be in there. They pay, I believe it's $1,500 to send a uh recruit to our academy.

Fred A. Neil

Yeah, so so the total numbers, I mean, sometimes I only see maybe one or two of our officers are there, but we're overloaded from around the state.

Paul Kuntzi

Yes, and we also receive, I believe it's like $50,000 a year in grant money.

Fred A. Neil

And unlike

Fred A. Neil

...the state training program, we concentrate really on the municipality...

Thomas Johnson

Dover-centric, yes.

Fred A. Neil

...level of it.

Thomas Johnson

How we how we conduct business, how we do uh our policing, yes.

Fred A. Neil

Okay. All right, thank you, sir. How are you?

Fire Department Representative

Good afternoon. I'll make this quick, so everybody wants to go to lunch, I'm sure, and get out of here. Uh first off, we provide fire and rescue services to the city of Dover. Um our biggest uh challenges are funding the operations of the fire department, which includes maintenance, firefighter safety, turnout gear. Um we are doing firefighter physicals now, which include cancer screenings, which is one of the number one causes of firefighter deaths, um as well as um um maintenance of the apparatus. So, uh you know, I'm going to speak real quick on apparatus replacements. Uh we've been replacing apparatus on a 15-year rotation. Um we're doing very well with that. We've we've overcome uh the fallback that we've had from previous years, um but we're moving into a new era with kinda have to replace a ladder truck real soon. Um it's our main cost of uh maintenance cost right now. Uh over the past two years, it's cost us $135,000 to keep it on the street, which is Ladder 1. It's actually parked right now. It's out of service. Um and there's a 4-year turnaround time on receiving something new. So if we ordered it today, we wouldn't see it until probably 2029 or 2030. Uh so you'll probably see that coming up real soon as a CAF to the City Council. Uh the other thing, staffing. So staffing's of course very important to us. Um thanks to Senator Paradee and his efforts with the Grant-in-Aid money, uh we've put in to place the stipend program. We have 50 members that are registered in that right now that are are gaining stipends from staffing the fire station, uh which is an excellent program that we have. We're always building on it, making adjustments. Um you know, nothing's ever perfect, but we're coming along quite well with that. And uh with that stipend program, you know, we still have some struggles with staffing on the weekends and some nights, um but we are we're moving forward. And um the City Manager right now has a CAF on his desk reference to the stipend program to keep that funded. And our idea is to keep that funded for a couple years out, so if that money were to ever go away, the city would have time to go back and look and figure out a way to fund that. So you'll see that coming across your desk here soon. Um and of course, security in the fire station. We've talked about that several times, you know. We have members staying at the fire station staffing fire trucks. Currently, we're normally staffing an engine and a ladder, I would say 95% of the time, sometimes three pieces, which is outstanding. Um but security downtown's an issue. Uh we've had cars broken into, guns stolen out of vehicles. Uh every time we have a call, someone's coming through the parking lot trying door knobs or door handles on cars to see if they can get in, get some change, or whatever the case might be. So, fencing around the fire station is another priority for us to secure the building downtown. Um but like I said, operations and staffing is our main goal. Staffing comes through right now the Grant-in-Aid money as as we've been doing the past couple years. Hopefully that continues, but we want to make sure that's funded out, so if that money were to ever go away, the city has time to figure out a plan on how to fund that. Like I said, there's 50 members enrolled in that now. We...

David Carey

are looking forward to that increasing, and we expect that to increase quite a bit over the next year or so. That's all I have.

Brian E. Lewis

Good afternoon, Chief. It's 1:00, so it's afternoon now. First of all, I want to commend you for doing an excellent job with your new recruitment drive. My question is, since that drive has been initiated, what is the percentage of applicants that you've received? I know you've been going out to the colleges, the high schools, even the base, if I stand correct. Since its implementation, though, what has been the percentage of volunteers applying?

David Carey

I would say over the past year, we've probably taken over 40 members in. Now, I will say with that, you retain 15 of those, maybe. You know, a lot of people join the fire department thinking, 'Oh, this is something I've always wanted to do,' until you put them in an air pack and you send them in a burning building, and they're like, 'Hmm, it's not really my thing.' Several of you have been in a burning building with me, right?

David Carey

And then they're like, 'Nah, we're not going to do this, right?' So, that's the transition we have to go through. You know, it's great that people want to volunteer. There's something for everyone to do. Administrative duties, riding the fire truck, recruitment, retention, all those things come together and and, like I said, there's a job for everyone. But our main focus is operations. Like we have to put a fire truck on the street, we have to provide that service, and that's just not something everyone decides to do once we put them in that burning building.

City Staff

Yeah, I if if you don't mind if I—

Fred A. Neil

Go ahead.

City Staff

Thank you. Um, first of all, I just want to say publicly how how fortunate we are to have such great leadership at Dover Fire Department, and it extends, you know, beyond David as well. I mean, they're just some, you know, all the folks who are running the fire department are just really tremendous public servants. But, you know, it all it all it all starts at the top, and and and Dave, you just do a great a great job. Um, you you all might not realize, but but David and I stay in touch quite frequently throughout the year, and I try to make sure that he's getting what he needs to do, or what he needs in order to do his job. And, and like some of the members of council here, I every year I attend the end-of-the-year banquet, and and I'm just always really impressed by the number of new, young recruits that that are coming into the fire department. And—

City Staff

and that's a real struggle for towns up and down the state, and and Dover has really proven to be just innovative, and and more successful than than most fire departments up and down the state in terms of attracting, um, uh, young members. And, and it's very interesting to see just the what a diverse group of young people that are coming in. And and the fire department today, if you look at the makeup of it, it is very reflective of our population in this city. And and I think, um, uh, David and and, and all the member all the leadership at Dover Fire Department should really be commended for just doing such a tremendous job keeping us safe. I I'm just so appreciative of everything you do.

David Carey

Thank you.

David L. Anderson

I just have a follow-up. With regard to your equipment, I mean it's important, and it's a integral part of your department. Um, when you get—

Brian E. Lewis

a new apparatus, a new ladder, a new engine, what do you guys do with the old and is there any way that you can recoup funding to go back into the fire department?

David Carey

So what we normally do when we sell a piece of apparatus is we take that that money and buy new equipment for the new truck that's coming in. Um so currently right now we're looking at the possibility of purchasing new air packs. So we have an NFPA standard that we have to follow, so every so many years those things have to be replaced. Um it's it it's we have 55 56 air packs right now, it's going to be an $800,000 expenditure when we do it. So, how how do we fix that? You know, um so we try to replace that equipment with the trucks as we replace the apparatus, so when we order a new truck, we try to order new air packs, is what we're trying to get back into, so we don't have a big upfront cost of air packs all at one time. Now of course if we change vendors or something like that, that's a different situation where we we where we would have to do it all at once so we're able to work together and equipment matches up.

Brian E. Lewis

I know I'm going to get a lot of heat for this question.

David Carey

No, you're good.

Brian E. Lewis

Okay. But it's to help you guys because you know I'm 100% supportive of the Dover Fire Department. In my opinion, it's the best in the nation. Um, we have a lot of nonprofits, okay? And some of these nonprofits bring in a substantial amount of money. You know, we have DSU, you know, we have uh a whole bunch, I'm not going to name them all. But is there any way that you know maybe you could send a letter out or something to the effect that you know you guys need air packs, is there any way, you know, you can maybe contribute something to assisting us with the air packs? Because like with a lot of nonprofits, they don't pay taxes, yet they receive our services.

David Carey

Yes, I understand what you're saying. Um, I can tell you our fund drive, as you know we send a fund drive notice out every year, um we did not make our goal this year. I think it's 10% of the community replies back to those mailings that we do. Don't quote me on my percentage, but that's what I believe it is right now. Um, our corporations don't donate anything to the fire department anymore like they used to, so many years ago your your big industrial facilities throughout the town would give you $2,000 here, $2,000 there. We're not getting that anymore. So, um I know Senator Paradee and I have been in conversations in reference to how to change that and how to educate some people, um how to go to Del State and possibly get some donations from them kind of like the University of Delaware does to to the city of Newark. Um so those are all avenues that we we need to to look at. It's the time to to be able to sit down and actually do those things is is the problem, you know. Um but we can send letters out and try to do that and and see if that would help. I'm not I'm not sure if it would.

Brian E. Lewis

Well, let me know if there's anything I could do. Again, you know I'm supportive of you guys. That's all I have. Thank you.

David Carey

Absolutely.

Fred A. Neil

Uh if there are no other questions, I want to thank you, David.

David Carey

Absolutely.

Fred A. Neil

At the last minute realized we had an issue for

David Carey

That's okay.

Fred A. Neil

presentation, so uh as usually you came through and asked you for a presentation.

David Carey

Absolutely.

Fred A. Neil

Um that's we're going to take a brief break right now for

Roy Sudler, Jr.

with the council, um, and then we'll come back and I'll wrap up in three or four hours after that.

Female Attendee

Good luck.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

Um, I want to thank all the members of the of the staff, all the directors, and others who came for for being here today. I know it run a bit longer than I thought it was going to go, but I appreciate you all being honest and forthright and and and helping council and me understand some of your issues and challenges. The documents that you all prepared will become sort of like chapter number one when you write a book, a bloody very start. So there was a a reason I also asked you to to do those things. So kind of so kind of common start point. So, thank you all for for your presentations and uh you're dismissed.

David L. Anderson

That one's on.

David L. Anderson

Okay. Um, well, there's slightly a smaller audience than before, but uh we'll I'll pick up kind of where we left off. Um, first of all, what did you think of the departmental presentations? Were they useful, helpful?

Fred A. Neil

I think it was helpful. I think the statistics were particularly helpful. Uh I know how to clear out a room, because I was the I was the last one to speak, and I declared that, did I not, uh, Mr. Hugg?

David L. Anderson

You did.

Fred A. Neil

That I would save my remarks the last.

David L. Anderson

For last, yeah.

Fred A. Neil

I know how to clear out a room. That's for sure.

David L. Anderson

Okay. I'll take some lessons, sir.

Fred A. Neil

I I think basically the the presentation showing what we've done, let's say over the last 3 years where the tax base, how much it's produced from 2024 fiscal year at five uh 59.2 million, and where it is currently in uh 20 fiscal 2026 at 64 uh 0.7 million. And then you look back on the same 3 years and our tax rate has not climbed. It is still four, four and a half uh cents per 100. We need to have um the tax base has got to increase, and the presentation that uh Councilman Anderson arranged for the Kent County Kent County, uh Kent, um, Economic Partnership which uh we will see in um now in February, basically is important in terms of the spread of the tax base in certain areas of the city where they have participated. But I I emphasized in my conversation with uh Senator Paradee, we need to bit preserve the properties we have now that will not sustain will not increase in value as part of the tax base, Right. simply because of the problems we're having with the broken justice system. The second thing is it becomes important in terms of the evidence of the necessity uh of the Downtown Partnership's master plan, because I don't know what uh the uh Acme property brought in, if anything, and what will it bring in now that we have a an agreement that is in place when that that's going to be built where you have 120 apartments over top of retail, and suddenly now here is an increase, and we need to preserve that as that grows, as that draws more

Fred A. Neil

money in to make sure that we have control over people who can't control themselves. And that is a very difficult task that we have. We also have at this particular point noise that's coming to from us from from the public or segments of the public. Not one single person has ever come up to tell us where the money tree is that grows the trees that grow money. None of them said, "This is where you can get one of those trees." And because of that, we have got to stop listening to what is people who are looking for money that we can't get the money for what we need in order to help them. And they're really not helping their own cause in that process. We've even been threatened now by someone who is a a member of a committee, appointed to a committee for the city, who has now threatened us to bully us, to come to our homes with bullhorns and advocates and raise all kinds of heck. We have to basically shield ourselves off from that. And we as members of the council have got to listen and do what we have to do to meet our commitments and to kill keep going forward. And I yield, Mr. Hugg.

Dave Hugg

All right. Yeah, I think one point I want to make follow up on that. If you look at that table you were looking at, um you know, our total expenditures went up by 10 by like 10%. The budget went up by 10%. I'm sorry, wrong slide. Our budget went up by 10% in the last last 2 years or 3 years. In the same time period, the general fund only went up by 4%. So we're literally you can see we're just we're we're losing ground quickly. Um let's jump on to um can I do that? Transfer taxes, department overviews. We did them. I don't know what slide this is, but the slide after tell go to the one that says challenges and issues. It's slide 25. There you go, okay. You can flip forward to the next one. All of this material, of course, is in your packet so you I'm not going to try and go through all of it with you. Just a couple points I want to make and it certainly it picks up on on on the point that the Council President just made. Um we tend to make our decisions based on a small number of of of people, a small input in into the actual decision-making process. It's the it really is the squeaky wheel at its at its very best. It occurred to me the other night sitting in council that we have the same, I think I counted 32 people or something, roughly the other night. And the same 30 or so, 40 or so people are driving our decisions. They represent less than 1% of our population. So somehow we've got to hear better, to get better input from the the folks on who understand that yeah, it's going to cost a little more to have a police force. It's going to, you know, if we want to do X, Y, and Z, we need to figure out how to pay for it. So I think that's kind of a challenge for both both sides of this here. You know, for the council as council members and for us as as staff to somehow figure out how to get more input, whether it's in person or you know, printed form or media or social whatever. Um the other thing I think is is the third point there: how do we how well we perform the duties and provide the services

Dave Hugg

we are assessed. And I remember once, I think Tony was, Tony DePrima was the city manager and there was, and the sign's still out front. So, "quality services," blah, blah, blah, whatever it says. But there was some kind of a survey thing that council did or we did from time to time that kind of gave some metrics for, "Yeah, you're doing well; no, you're not doing really well; this is where." And I'm thinking that maybe, you know, that's a something we ought to look at perhaps doing again. Some more regular basis for, you kind of heard it today. They told you what they what they think they're doing well, but we really can't measure most of that. And and that that, I think, makes it hard for us to then come to you, come to the public, and say, "I need 6 cents on the on the tax rate because, you know, this is what we're doing well or not and why we're not not doing it." Um, go to the next slide, please.

Dave Hugg

Okay. Budgetary challenges, I've I've said this to you, you know, a lot in the past, and I'm not going to spend a whole lot of time on it. One of the things that that makes it difficult in Dover is that family incomes are lower than they are in a lot of comparative cities and property values are lower than they are in a lot of comparative cities. And the problem there is that that limits, you know, 3 3 cents on the tax dollar for somebody living in Dover has a much more significant effect than it does somebody in Middletown, let's say, where where the values and all are higher, even though the amounts are higher.

Dave Hugg

Um, we've also got to be careful. I picked this one up by virtue of our economic development tax incentives. We actually hurt ourself, you know, for for most of the big industries that we've bring to town, we give them a 10-year tax waiver, and it's declining, but the year in which we are really benefited is the year they arrive in town when they make that, you know, $10 million investment or whatever. And that's the year in which we give them a 100% tax tax deferral. And that's a that's a real kind of mixed bag because part of the reason they came here was because of the tax waiver, but they're they're having a negative effect. So we may, as part of our economic development discussions, Mr. Anderson, we probably ought to kind of think through is there are there things we could do other than tax waivers that wouldn't have the same financial impact? I throw that out there for discussion. Um, go to the next slide.

Dave Hugg

Uh, the other kind of a just looking through some of these things, I'm going to hit on a few of them. Um, first of all, the way we do our budget has always sort of bothered me. We start with what do I want to spend and then we say, "Well, where can I get the money?" Uh, and it just seems to me that and and then we ask you folks for to approve it, and we sort of negotiate. Um, and I don't know how we would do it necessarily, but some jurisdictions start out looking at their revenues and, you know, what they think they're going to have to spend. The state kind of does that with the DEFAC process. And um they build in from the get-go some kind of cost adjustment for the things that they know are going to go up that they can't control, so they know that insurance is going up 40%. They put, you know, they make those assumptions. Um, but they do the kind of revenue forecasting first and then figure out what they want to spend it on as opposed to the way I've always done it in all the years I've been in government is, you know, you go to the department heads and say, "How much do you want?" And then you go, "Oh, we can't afford quite that much. Let's take something out." Um, and it just It seems to me that our our budgeting process is somehow backwards. And I don't know how you fix that, but that's an that's an observation that does does concern me. Um, well, let's let's move on.

Dave Hugg

Opportunities. You heard a

David Hugg

all of them this morning. I guess the the the point of this slide is really to say what to ask you as council, you know, what is it that we don't do that we want to do? What is it that we think are City of Dover responsibilities or roles that we don't now undertake? It's kind of my point earlier that people basically want the water to run, the lights to stay on, and the potholes to get fixed. But some of you, Mr. Anderson, I'll pick on you in particular, you made a very important point the other day, I don't know whether you realized it, but when we were talking about the cold weather and all those problems, you you had a a comment in there about the people who were homeless, who, you know, what do we do about them? And I'm thinking, well, you know, that's an important question because is that really a state, a city responsibility or not? Um, you know, if our job is water, sewer, roads, and lights, do we have an obligation? Do we have a responsibility? I mean, we can care, but do we have a responsibility for actually doing something? And if we do, if we decide that we really do want to get into some of these social issues, you know, more with traditional housing, counseling, mental health, like the police department's already moved into, do we How do we We can certainly do it. You'll just our discussion about the powers of the city, there's no real restrictions that say we couldn't have a housing department. There's no no restrictions in in the the state code or in the charter that says we couldn't have an active workforce development program. I mean, there's a lot of things that we could theoretically do, but are they things that we should do as a city? And if they are, how are we going to pay for them? So, I don't Council President had his hand up first.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

No, I'll yield to

David Hugg

You'll defer? Okay.

Roy Sudler, Jr.

my colleague in the Third District.

Tricia K. Arndt

Thank you. So with response to to that, I think, something like that. Well, one, first of all, within your presentation you've mentioned several times what the responsibilities of the city are and what they are not. And I appreciate that. And I agree with you that the the the housing and the shelters and the um the services to the disadvantageous, disadvantaged, that is not a city function, per our charter. That is a a state and nonprofit um function. If we were to move in that direction, one, we can't afford it. Two, we don't, you know, we don't have the resources or the expertise. Um, but if we were to move in that in that direction, I would think that would be a good question to ask all of the residents, our constituents, um what are you willing to pay for that? Um, how much of a tax increase are you willing to take on for us to provide those services? Um, rather than constantly being hammered on the floor that we should be ashamed of ourselves for not providing these services, um when it is not our role to do so and we cannot afford to do so, um and and put that back out to the public. You know, how And I'm pretty sure the answer is going to be they're not going to be willing to accept a 10 or 15% tax increase in order to pay for this suite of services that we are accused of of not providing. So, that's just my thought on that.

David Hugg

Yeah, there were some helpful comments in, or particularly hopeful, I guess, not helpful, comments that were in the uh governor's both State of the State and the budget program. Um, but I I was looking for, I wish he had said, "We're going to solve the homeless problem." I wish he'd said we're going to, you know, he he talks about it,

Dave Hugg

but it's not. Maybe it's in the details of the budget, and it might well be. The reason I brought up to Senator Paradee, you know, the word energy's not in there. We heard this morning how critical the energy issues are to the city of Dover, um and that's an area where we should have responsibility, but we're not, we're getting mixed measures mixed signals.

Dave Hugg

Um, but I agree with you that, and I I really wish somebody would just stand up and say, you know, it's not fair for the cities or the county, for that matter, um to try and solve the homeless problem, or at least certainly not on its own.

Tricia K. Arndt

So, I think like to that to that aspect, I think our role is to provide opportunities for affordable housing. I mean, our role is for the planning, the zoning. Those those are the things that are under the city's control in terms of um allowing for um housing options at multiple price points. And I think we do a pretty good job in terms of multifamily units, percentage-wise, within within the city.

Dave Hugg

Yeah, when you when you look at Dover, the the most of the I don't have the percentages in my mind, but the the majority, a very significant majority of the housing that's being built is either townhouses or apartments. Uh and when you look at dissect it a little bit more, a pretty fair amount of that is I'll call it subsidized housing, you know, it's housing that that is is off is eligible for, you know, vouchers and all kind all kinds of things. And some of it, a significant number of units that are actually, you know, State Housing Authority or or private housing authority um, you know, owned and operated and maintained. So, we probably do a better job than we give ourselves credit for.

Tricia K. Arndt

And I'm hoping that the the pilot that we're doing with DSHA that's doing the review of our our our our code or, you know, to determine how well we're doing with housing, I'm hoping that provides that um, you know, information that we are doing um as well as we can. There will there will be opportunities for improvement, sure, but um I'm looking forward to their report. Have they started?

Dave Hugg

Um, no, we had we had a phone conference. We haven't started.

Tricia K. Arndt

Okay. Thank you.

Dave Hugg

It should start anytime now because they've notified us.

Dave Hugg

Um, so anyhow that's just kind of a background question. If there are things that that we firmly believe the city ought to have some role in, then we need to expand on them, make sure we have the capacity to do them and a a funding source. Um, and again you heard this morning from a lot of a lot of my employees, a lot of my department heads, staff resources and other resources are just a limitation. That the reality is that, you know, we can we can run a department, but when they in most cases, we can't run it really effectively because we're just not adequately staffed to do it, and that's a big source.

Fred A. Neil

That is why I yielded to my colleague. She covered everything. Um, the only thing she did not cover, and I I'll make a wry comment, is the only people that you solicit to say will you pay for it, and they say yes, probably don't pay taxes. I yield.

Dave Hugg

That could be too, yeah.

Dave Hugg

Um, so, moving ahead, let's go to go to budget realities, the second slide after that. Okay, one more. Okay.

Dave Hugg

Well, this comes right on the point that that was just made, capacity and resources. Um, and I guess this is the other side of the same question. If we decide there are new things that we want to do and if we decide we're not going to put that on our our residents as a

Dave Hugg

the tax word, then, you know, this is a rhetorical question obviously, what do we cut? What don't we do that we do now? Are there places that that we could reduce our expenditures because we think, you know, housing for for homeless people is more important than libraries or whatever that decision is. So, I just put those out there so that we have some idea that, yeah, if we're going to make some of these choices and we're not going to be bold and say here's how we're going to pay for them, then we really have an obligation to go back through and say, you know, trash every other week, whatever the decision is, to make sure that we still have a balanced budget at the end. Okay, moving ahead.

Dave Hugg

Um, okay next, next slide. There we go. Um, what are our revenue sources? I mean, you all kind of understand these. I've got like two pages of them, but, you know, property tax, it's the most significant one. That's the one most local jurisdictions rely on. It's the one that has generally the highest resistance from from the electorate. Um, it can discourage economic development, so you're always running that question of you're always getting that question when the get the the, uh, you know, the the site selector: What are what are the property tax? What's the property tax rate? Whatever. And they compare that. Um, so that's one.

Dave Hugg

Um, I already mentioned low property values. Um, tax exemption, particularly the PILOT, you know, that we, 2 years ago Senator Sokola promised me, promised the Mayor and I, that he was going to um, yeah, designate a committee of the Senate and the House to work on on on a better formula for PILOT. Uh, the tray's money from the the Grants-in-Aid has kind of substituted for for that. But we only get 33 cents on the dollar of um, of deferred taxes, which doesn't, that's, it's crazy.

Dave Hugg

Um, we talked about how much money that uh, $0.01 makes. Talked about the 25%. Transfer tax, the same issue: it's unpredictable.

Dave Hugg

Fees, permits, licenses, approvals, um, we have some control over them. They're the ones that we can actually say that, okay, your business license is going to be increased every year by the CPI, or it's going to be increased by 5%, or whatever we're going to do. Um, again, there's potential for for discouraging economic development. Uh, and it is somewhat predictable, I mean, I can tell you what I think the revenue from business licenses is going to be and be pretty close, because, you know, up and down a little bit, but it doesn't change wildly, but it is an an unpredictable source of funds. Next page.

Dave Hugg

Miscellaneous revenue sources, you know, parks charges, fines, interest, those kinds of things, again, very unpredictable, very limited. Um, right now, the predictability of grants, it used to be that you could pretty well sit down with the federal Catalog of Domestic Assistance, about that thick, uh, and you could leaf through it and there were grant after grant after grant, and your choice your chances of getting it if you met the qualification for population or whatever, were generally pretty good. You know, those programs got funded, HUD programs, you know, uh, the the open space programs, those things. Um, we know now that that's, you know, you're you're really betting on on anytime you apply for a grant now, and as one of I think, made the point, or somebody made the point that you spend an awful lot of time putting a grant together, you know, doing all those things, sometimes it's not really worth the effort. And I know personally that a few years ago when I was in Smyrna, somebody convinced me that I ought to apply for an Economic Development Administration grant. Um, big money

David Hugg

Lots of stuff. Uh, we got all the way through the sort of preliminary approval process, and I realized I've spent more getting this grant than I'm going to get, you know? And I still didn't have a guarantee I was going to get it. And it was like, "No, I'm not going to deal with EDA anymore. It's just not worth the effort." Um, transfers from enterprise funds, I mean that's that's where the bulk of of our uh non-general fund, non-fee-based money comes from. It's $10 million from the electric fund and $2 million from water and wastewater, a million each.

Unknown Speaker

Isn't it a million each?

David Hugg

A million each. Um, and maybe some other things. Um, but the the really critical concern there is that drives rates, and we've got to be careful how we, you know, we could take $20 million from the electric fund if we wanted to. Uh, we'd probably run into some problems with the with the the uh credit folks, and we'd probably run into some issues with our own reserve policy, but there, you know, there are some savings accounts, if you will, that we could that we could tap. I don't like that idea, but it is something we could do. Okay, moving ahead. Next slide. Yeah, okay.

David Hugg

Huh, I talked about most of this, you know, new functions and responsibilities, newer redirected revenue sources, I mean that's part of the process of discussion. Um, equity and fairness, I hear that a lot from you all in this room and and from others. We've got to be sensitive to the fact that not everybody's is as able as we are to pay that extra $50 on the sewer charge or whatever it is. I mean, I grumble every quarter when the county sends me its its new sewer assessment, and it's gone from $60-some to $120-some in about a year and a half. Every quarter, it goes up, but I can pay it, you know? I I grumble, but I write the check for, and, you know, there's a lot of our a lot of the folks that live in in Dover don't have quite that luxury, so being, you know, being understanding of that and providing some equity, so I mean we all know our personal income tax is regressive. I think our property tax is regressive as well, um, and and, you know, that that makes it kind of inequitable. Um, getting better getting more public participation, we talked about. More strategic planning, I've been trying this year to to move more in that direction, so we're, you know, the idea of the five-year IT plan, for example, you know, I mean that was a key point that I made when I when I hired Joe in the first place, is, you know, we have got to have a plan that five years from now when, you know, Apple 35 is no longer, you know, Microsoft 35 is no longer, you know, the the the go-to, how do we get to 36? You know? And, you know, in the case of Microsoft 10, it's going to go away. It's not a question of, you know, when we do it, it's we're going to have to do it, because that's that has changed. Um, I think we should take a few minutes sometime and really look at the the reserve policies. I I don't know, I wasn't around when they were all put together. I don't know exactly what parameters, you know, were were built into them. Um, does the 8% rule really make any sense? Do we have to be at 8%? Um, and and, you know, and maybe we do, maybe that's good public policy, I don't know, but we kind of, okay, this is got to have this, you can't, you know, and this year we've made a lot of effort to get to 8%, um, but that's pain that could have been, you know, used for other purposes that we weren't able to fund, so I just think that's a step we ought to go through is to figure out what our reserve policy

Dave Hugg

...policies are intended to preserve to, you know, to generate more. Okay. Moving on to... Okay.

Dave Hugg

That's essentially my presentation. Um, we've got some critical decisions I think to make. Uh, you know, first is kind of what is it we want to do that we don't do now? What is it we do now that we want to do more of? Um, how do we address some of these relatively significant problems that I know are coming, you know are coming, particularly things like public safety. Um, and as I explained I think in in that discussion, you know, my strategy over the last couple of years, give the chief one, give the library one, give planning one, give, you know, that's not a way to to actually build capacity. Um, you know, you can't just want one or two at a time, it doesn't get you anywhere. Uh, it kind of keeps you in that It's It's, you know, when you think factor in uh, you know, cost of living and other kinds of things, one or two positions doesn't make a real difference. Um, but, you know, the the converse of that is, you know, the chief who has asked for six positions this year. Four police, one at 1L um IT person. What was the other, do you remember what the other for the police positions that they asked for? Yeah, four chief, four police, oh, the um extra supervisor, the 911 supervisor.

Female Speaker

It's 911 supervisors to convert uh 911 operators, two supervisors, one for each shift.

Dave Hugg

Yeah, okay. Um, we really do, I mean, I know it's a, it's, you know, not the language anybody wants to hear, but we have got to raise our revenue sources, particularly the property tax. I mean, um, Jeff every year keeps telling me and he's right, we're going to run out of money. And we're going to run out of money not that far down the future if we stay on the same path we're on. Uh, expenses, as I just told you, expenses are running 10%, you know, in the last 2 years, General Fund revenue running 4%. And if you don't jockey something, you know, there's only one place that curve's going to go, and it's going to go down. So, um, that's sort of where we are from a workshop standpoint. I I, you know, I you all will be sitting in budget hearings in a couple of months. We'll be in budget hearings with our departments starting in February, um, which is what, next week? Yeah. Yeah, next week. Um, we're trying to get a handle on just what is our current financial situation, how much do we have at the end of the year for for last fiscal year. Um, but I can tell you standing here that our choices are either raise revenues or cut or cut services. It's not a It's not a gee whiz, it's that we are going to have to do one or the other. Um, and and I don't see any other way out of it, and I'm I'm you know, I would I would if you if you asked me right now, I would say we need at least $0.10, maybe $0.15. I know we'll never get there, right? But to really get us in a position where, you know, our our General Fund revenues and our expenses are much more balanced, it's a pretty significant number. It's It's, you know, $3 to $4 million. It's not a couple hundred thousand. So, uh, any of you folks that are on the budget, do you want to say anything? You guys want to say anything?

Council Member

Well, I'll just reiterate that fact. We, we did raises a couple years ago, but we never put in motion how we were going to pay for those. And since then, we've done even more raises. We just did one in January, but...

Dave Hugg

Yeah.

Council Member

...uh, I mean, I just, like you said, our, our revenues are so far outpaced by our expenses, there's got to be, there's got to be an equilibrium there. We've got to either cut back...

Male Speaker

...or find more revenue. It just can't keep on like we've done the last three or four years.

Staff

For recording purposes, could Jeff move up to like, this is on his seat, up into the... just so when we capture him...

Male Speaker

Okay. Where's the mic? I gave the rest of the mics.

Staff

Yeah, or like he could sit there if he wants. Like that way, you know... And Trish, you might as well take a seat too. That's probably a safe bet, cuz that way it's it's captured.

Tricia K. Arndt

Absolutely.

Male Speaker

Yeah, besides I need your input, so this is fine.

Male Speaker

So, just to reiterate, we, we put into motion a couple years ago mass raises for the whole city basically. We've continued doing that over the last couple years. We never, a couple years ago, figured out how we were going to even pay for those raises then, and those have just increased, increased, increased every year. So again, our, our expenses are still far outpacing our revenues, and we've got to find something to have an actual balanced budget, not using money that has been built up over, over the years, that being used to take place of the, the difference. I mean, we've got to figure out a way that we can go forward and pay for what we're doing.

Male Speaker

And just another point, we've talked about it, the 1.6 million that the state gave us based on covering the schools and what's being used there, I mean that money really we need that for the services we provide now, not trying to figure out, you know, if we're going to give that for extra things for the police department or fire department, I don't know if that's what the plan was, but that money we need that just to balance our budget now. I mean that's a it's a great it's a great, you know, bit of money that we've we've, you know, been given for for things, I mean it could be used in place of the PILOT money that we don't get for the state buildings and everything else that we do that we're we're not, you know, making revenue on, so. That's just my my gist of it is we've we've got to get to the point where our expenses are matching our revenues, one way or the other.

Tricia K. Arndt

So and from my perspective, if you look at where we ended fiscal year 24 in the ACFR that was released through audit, there was a significant swing for the general funds specifically. So our budget balance, as as Jeff has said - sorry, Jeff has said many times to all of us, we're dwindling that, those funds down. I think we're we're really in a tough situation where we hear all the wants and we hear the needs, but we have to make the tough choices of saying no. And if you're going to say yes, you're not going to have a choice but to raise taxes, and I or other fees, and I know that's something that the community at large can't truly support. So we we're all going to have to take a a deep-dive look. But not not only at what we're saying here. Through my time in finance, I've found quite a few reconciling issues. Like for for example, that impacted fiscal year 24, there was a health, a health recon where we had had to recoup, if you will, or write off nearly $100,000. Well, $100,000 in the grand scheme of things of a $250 million budget may not seem like a lot, but that's $100,000 that could be used for another...

Donyale M. Hall

another need or another source, and there are simple things that need to be updated and taken care of, that's just one example. There's other examples, and maybe the term DOGE is not popular out in the world, per se, but that's the kind of deep dive I think that we need to be able to see where truly the expenses are being paid out. Where's the fluff, and cut out the fluff, so that we truly have what we need to run and operate the city efficiently.

Fred A. Neil

If I may, you're preaching to the choir here. We don't have the rest of the choir. And you understand that past couple of years, just the penny or two that I had favored, we were not getting. And the pushback from the people, just as I've indicated, I've already said it. They don't want us to raise taxes. Don't raise taxes! They don't understand that what it's going to cost us in the future if we delay replacement of a part that has long passed its life expectancy, then the emergency costs more. We can't use the money from the enterprise funds to the point where it cost us more when we borrow, it's going to cost down the future even more money. And we've already made, as you've indicated, the commitments of of pay raises and other things. And I don't want to talk about storm water, storm water. I mean, that turned out to be an absolute disaster. But we're still paying that because we can't get it to where we can shift some of the service charges. It may have to be an artificial type of thing that we do to make it reasonable, because Chris and I basically went before the Speedway folks and they said, 'Hey, we may have to move out of town,' because it was just the way it was set up and the portions and what have you, it just didn't work. So, there has to be a different way to do that. We haven't even touched that. And then you're talking about the cross piping that was supposed to be done that we've had outrages from from the business people saying, 'Why? I'm not I'm not going to cause this. I'm not going to cause this.' I've had my plumber come and tell me, says, 'You can't even touch that.' So, these are things we haven't even touched yet, but you're not talking You're not talking to everybody who has to make that decision. You're talking to the people who I would guess, because I don't know, I didn't ask them, will they us understand fully what we have to deal with. And this is for the record. I mean, we're we're recording this for the record. And we have to make sure that they understand, hey, this this isn't fun and games. This isn't to play to the crowd. This is what we have to do to run this city responsibly. I yield.

Donyale M. Hall

I don't believe there is. Um we can go back and review it again. Definitely something we can do, but I did review, if memory serves me correctly, thank you for reminding

Sharon Duca

I mean, we we reviewed that with Emily, uh a bond counsel previously, uh and they it is uh specified. That financial policy is specified within our bonds, uh and I want to say our oldest bond is from 2013, um so that we would have to go through the steps of possibly amending those if we were to amend our financial policies. It we'll have to review that with bond counsel. It's worth reviewing. I mean, absolutely worth reviewing.

Tricia K. Arndt

Can we talk about the the reserve policy? Um I mean, since you brought that up as, you know, 8% is the goal. And as I recall, we had talked about that in the past and that was necessary to maintain our bond rating, so I wasn't aware that there was some wiggle room there.

Tricia K. Arndt

So the the 8%, I mean that goes beyond changing our City of Dover policy, that involves renegotiating bond criteria.

Sharon Duca

Potentially, which is something that we actually discussed uh during some of our budget conversations thus far is looking at our debt service schedules and seeing if there's any way that we could possibly refinance for lower interest rates or maybe using some type of finite financing, not necessarily bonds, but financing in general to fund some of the things that we need necessarily need to do on a long- longer term basis. But to the- to the point of the reserves policy, yes, we'd have to renegotiate the bond terms.

Tricia K. Arndt

Which isn't impossible, but...

Robin R. Christiansen

I use the 8% as a as an example. I don't know about the other limitations that we have as well where certain amounts have got to be put aside. Uh and it may be that they we we convinced ourselves couple of years ago that it wasn't good to not be at 8%, so this year in the budget, '26 budget, we got to 8%. Um but I guess I ask myself, well, you know, are they are they will in fact the bond counsel care if we're at 7%?

Sharon Duca

Yes.

Robin R. Christiansen

Oh, God.

Sharon Duca

According to Emily. Now, uh if memory serves me correctly, in the financial policies, uh we uh we can fall within of the 8 to 12% range, but after three only for three periods, if memory serves me correctly, and we have to correct course after three years.

Unknown Speaker

That's right.

Robin R. Christiansen

Who who set the uh those percentages initially? Was it I mean were they something that bond counsel said you got to do this or was it something we...

Sharon Duca

I think it was a combination of, but I know that the last update to the financial policy was done in 2019 when Lori was here. Yeah. Uh prior to that, it was through Donna. Okay. And I don't remember the date of cert-

Robin R. Christiansen

Okay.

Robin R. Christiansen

Well, I mean that's that's the example of the kinds of things we need to we need to look at. It may not be, you know, we may not be able to do something with it, but we ought to at least ask ourselves those questions. And as- and as uh Tricia said, we have also looked at at, you know, the possibility of of uh taking on some debt uh to be able to post- and refinancing some of the existing debt and using using that new debt issuance as a way to fund some of the capital projects that right now come out of the general fund. So, I mean it's you know, and it's not bad fiscal policy to to carry some debt for major capital asset investment. Um I mean it it's it's just like your your home mortgage. I mean, you could pay for your mortgage, you know, outright, but you tend to finance long term because there's certain values there and um so those are things that we also need to do. But as I said once before, I've run out of rabbits, people. Uh I've I've pulled rabbits...

Unknown Male Speaker

time we've had in the last three or four years. And we're just runnin', you know, without a significant decision, we're just running out of room.

Tricia K. Arndt

So to uh is it okay if I speak freely? Uh the financial policies do go through Leg & Fin, am I correct in that? And they will they if we make any changes to the financial policies, they then get the final approval through Council. So if we

Unknown Male Speaker

Right.

Tricia K. Arndt

if we choose to make any amendments, it would it would have to go through the legislative process.

Unknown Male Speaker

Yes, ma'am.

David L. Anderson

Thank you. And now, in those policies, including 8%, I mean that's not a law anywhere. I mean that's other places don't have and other places do. We could have it at 6.25, we could have it at eight, but it but as she says, if we make a change, don't think that the change happens overnight because there's a whole process that that we that's based upon that including, as you said, bond covenants and the like. It does they can be changed or they can be updated and we could refinance it or whatever, you know, but but but that change isn't going to We can change the policy with a snap of the finger practically, legislative metaphor, I mean it's not that, but, you know, in a month we could change the policy, but

Unknown Speaker

Right.

David L. Anderson

the the effective time, it may take one or two years

Unknown Speaker

Right.

David L. Anderson

before everything runs through. And that that's that's all. Yeah, I mean and and so I mean it's fair to have that discussion because if we don't have that discussion and update, then we don't know if that's what we want. Um and we we need to have that now so we can figure out if in a year that's where we want to be or or whatever. Um but there is, I mean, whether a number 8% is a magic number or not necessarily, but we have to have some number that equals at least in in my view at least one month of expenses. If it's not one month of the total budget, which is 8%, then at least 6.25 or something um because if you have a a shortfall in revenue, if you while you're waiting for money to come in, like uh we we have staggered income. Uh so we get our property taxes a certain time, we get uh another time we get um business license fees and rental fees, etc., and and the state gives money a certain time, the Feds uh give money on a certain schedule. But if you but the reason why you want to have a certain cushion is because you when you start your year, for instance, you're waiting for the mortgage companies to all come in with the property tax money, the state is shifting over money, and their checks aren't necessarily in. And so you want at least that month cushion to sort of keep our operations in continuity. Um like I said, it doesn't have to be 8%, it could be uh of the revenue, it could be 6 and a half, it could be but but whatever it is, you have it can't be much lower in my opinion and be as effective as we want if um because if you have something and you're rolling along and you it the state government's been very efficient, but suppose you you do have a state government that doesn't come up with a budget for a change, it could happen. Um that hasn't happened the last

David L. Anderson

what, 40 years. But but it, but it could happen and then, all of a sudden municipal street money's not there. Do you have to, you would have to be ready to put aside all those projects until that happened, or if the federal government didn't pay its electric bill, you know, you'd you'd, I mean, that, those, those are things that, and I'm not even talking about natural disasters or anything, but just, um, but but I, um, but I, I agree, I mean, there there's, uh, there are things we can look at and ask questions about, such as that that money's our money, do we use it? I mean, do, if we did have a year, um, do we really need to pay ourselves back? I mean, that's the, that's a question that I would ask, there, that's a different question, and that's a question I would like examined. I mean, did we, you know, we changed that, I mean, are those type of changes are are something that I would be more likely to want to look at.

Tricia K. Arndt

Um, so the stormwater utility, like my thought was that we were still moving forward with that. The premise is sound. We just needed to re-evaluate the methodology for calculating the payments. So, I thought that was coming back. Is that not coming back as an option for revenue?

Lori Peddicord

It It's supposed to. Sharon, do you know what the status of of that study?

Sharon Duca

We're waiting for the model. So uh Mark Nowak in Public Works is working through a model to refresh the the standards basically, so we can...

Tricia K. Arndt

They have a consultant working on that, right?

Sharon Duca

They do.

Tricia K. Arndt

So there should be a timeline?

Sharon Duca

I can't answer to what that timeline is to be honest. Um, do you have any other details on it? Off the top of my head...

Fred A. Neil

You're part of this gang. Take Take a seat.

Sharon Duca

Um, at our last monthly meeting between myself, Sharon Duca, Assistant City Manager for the record, and Mark Nowak, Public Works Director, um he was supposed to be receiving the updated model uh for the stormwater utility um within a couple weeks for a first review. Um basically we were taking it back to the original consultant to review what we put together based upon the questions that were raised through meetings with Council and constituents. Um for example, how do you handle it if you have multiple properties but they're not contiguous, uh things of that nature, but also looking at the details of the model with the impervious surface and how the calculations were done, cuz we want to make sure everything's accurate.

Fred A. Neil

Yeah, and that and that would benefit the general fund because it would take those expenditures out of the general fund and put them in an enterprise-type uh situation, so and it would be a source, you know, depending on how it's done, it would be a source of revenue that equals or exceeds the the cost. Well, hey, I thank you all for putting up with us all half a day anyhow, or three quarters. Um I you know, I'm I'm hopeful that as we work our way through, some of these issues will start to get defined in in better terms. Um I do want to throw out, I've thrown out a couple of things for your consideration before, but um there are some things we have not typically done in addition to borrowing. Um you know, some some governments use special assessments. Uh it's kind of aimed at, okay, you benefit from this particular thing, we're going to assess you differently than than Miss Arndt who doesn't benefit from it.

David L. Anderson

Um I've toyed with the idea, I don't have any idea if it would even work, but one of the concerns we have frequently is our low income or lower income people uh and and the tax burden. Um could we consider a graduated property tax? Uh we do it for for for seniors, you know, we exempt the first x thousands of dollars of of for seniors for their their property tax. What if we said the first $20,000 of house value across the city were were weren't included in the taxes? You'd have to bump the rate up for the people who are above, but that might be a way to get get buy in for for the people who are struggling uh because it would it would minimize to some degree minimize their tax burden. So there's a number of things like that that we are kicking around just to see if they make any sense. I don't know if, at this point I don't I can't say yes or no, but and if there's any ideas that you all have for you know, I mean, whatever it is. You know, laugh laughingly a bake sale. I mean, it whatever it might be to to see if we can figure out ways to, you know, create some new some new revenues that are equitable, they're fair, they're easy to to administer, you know, what have you. Okay. Uh I'm done if there's any other questions or comments. You're all, we will stay here as long as you want us to. I thank you of all of you that were here, the four of you.

Tricia K. Arndt

Just a a comment. I think moving forward, um making sure that we have information ready for the public. I think there needs to be quite a bit of public education that needs to happen for folks to understand what we're tasked with and what is beyond our scope. And I think if we start that process now, we'd be in a better situation um from the public perspective when it comes time to make these decisions on the budget. Um so, just being able to be at the ready to explain, put it in social media, um op-eds, what have you, um just to kind of build that information base so that folks are better educated when it comes time to make these tough decisions on the budget.

David L. Anderson

How do you how do you, and I wouldn't do it beforehand, but how do you uh how do you feel about doing some kind of community survey? Is that something we should be thinking about to get some, since we have such low input from--

Fred A. Neil

Th- the problem I have with that, it's going to be negative. Uh I don't know whether we're going to get something positive out of it. Uh we have Mr. Doom and Gloom who comes in and anything you say, this is the reason why we did it, we did it to cut down on taxes, we've added fees, what have you. It just does not sink in. So I think you have these people who are very negative, that are going not going to add anything positive about the program. I think the more we can educate people who really comprehend what we're trying to do is going to be worthwhile. If you survey them, they're going to be they're going to, you're going to get the reflections of the negativity as opposed to reflections of how we basically can help, or or what what we think we need, or how how to accomplish the things that we want. How do we increase revenue? I mean, ultimately, that's what we're talking about, how do we increase revenue. And I don't know whether that is going to be, I don't know how accurate it would be. It's not going to be scientific. And it's just going to be words, and I don't know what we're going to take out of it. So, I think that the education and more publicity that we can possibly do. I mean, one of the things

Fred A. Neil

because I asked about the smart energy program. How many people take advantage of it? Do they really know? I mean, could we save something? I mean, we've had it posted. It's all posted on the website. Is the website good enough to say, here's money-saving things? I can go down about energy, and that smart energy program that we're paying for doesn't show up. There's other things that are on that website that show up, but not that particular program. And if I go and had posted the police quality life program, it's hard, I can't find it. I can't go right on it and find it, it's not there. So I think we need to look at that to expand what we can do or what we can find on the website in terms of making it easier for the educational program factor of it. Can you do it? Here it is, it's available to you there. And there's two stories today, when I go back, that I'm anxious to look at in the newspaper that I didn't get a chance to do this morning. One was on the police report, how was that reported, that presentation, and DDP. I think that's things that we have to constantly get out to the public, and who knows if they're reading the paper, we don't know that. And I suspect a lot aren't anymore. So that's it's a constant battle to get our message across to people and say here's where you can find the information, here's what we're going to do. The best thing that's happened was in terms of when you opened up the program for the city, you saw all about the information that we needed for the snow removal

Fred A. Neil

and when trash pickups are going to be. I sent out additional of that information to the Third District people and, you know, for Tricia and myself, to make sure that the movers and shakers know, so if their members come to them, that they can either circulate it or answer the questions that otherwise we would answer if they came directly to us. So there's no question about it. And I think one of the first things that Councilman Anderson gave me was a list of things, and one of those things dealt with the expansion of publicity of the things that we're doing that are positive and are available to the city. So that's my feeling on it.

Tricia K. Arndt

We need more positivity in general.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Yeah, I I I agree. We need to be telling people how great we how well we're doing what we're required to do, how efficiently we're doing it, and how effectively we're doing it. Um, because whoever made the point earlier, they simply don't understand. And Mark made that point too, that, you know, most people don't have a clue what we actually do. They just know that the trash doesn't get picked up or, you know, whatever it is. And I agree. Maybe that's a new assignment for Kay now that she's a department head.

Tricia K. Arndt

I think we need more, like you said, more positivity in general. I mean, the news cycle is always reactive. Everything about Dover is typically negative. I think we need to do a better job of, like you said, promoting what we're doing well and driving the news cycle rather than reacting to it.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

I mean, I think back to Paul made the point, our our electric system has gotten award after award after award for being reliable,

Dave Hugg

level. And I don't think I saw that in the paper anywhere. Or if it was, it was really buried someplace. Um, but that's pretty sn- I mean that that RP3 program is is not an easy walk through, and to even get a recognition, let alone an award, uh is impressive. Yes ma'am.

Tricia K. Arndt

Do we have anyone who notifies the media when we do get awards and so forth, when we get recognized?

Dave Hugg

Um, yeah, some. I mean that we don't really specifically we don't budget for what I would call marketing and promotion. But there's money kind of, you know, in a couple of departments that allow us for, you know, the mayor, for example, has an economic development line. Um, and it's really loosely defined to pretty much, you know, anything we want to to use that has a relationship to economic development. So, but it might be worth looking at that and say look, let's commit ourselves to an actual budget um and then make sure we do it.

Tricia K. Arndt

Well we should at least ask each department chair if their department gets an award, or is recognized for doing something really well, that they do a media release, because if we're not communicating it, there's no way for the for the public to know.

Dave Hugg

To know. I think the water, the Division of Water and Wastewater does a really good job.

Fred A. Neil

Wouldn't that go through Kay? Kay Sass, I mean. Yeah, that goes, anything should Kay, go through Kay. She's she's...

Dave Hugg

Kay and the website, yeah. We've, I mean, we...

Sharon Duca

...have the budget hearings earlier this year... put that together.

Dave Hugg

Okay. Okay. I was just reminded to remind you that budget bud- budget meetings with departments will start next week, and budget hearings will be scheduled earlier than they were last year so that we have a little more time to normally make Well, less time to kind of prepare to present, but more time to consider what that what we're what we're asking for. So just kind of build that into your schedules that will probably be What? Probably April? Sometime in April, as opposed to May.

Tricia K. Arndt

I was thinking, you mentioned the first week in May, right? Because that's what, that's why I said. Because usually it's the last week in May or the first week in June, and you're talking about a month earlier, so I thought maybe May, just

Sharon Duca

Yeah, we were looking at uh the electric public hearing, and why it's scheduled the way it's scheduled because it kind of conflicts with some of our budget hearings, and possibly moving that around a bit.

Dave Hugg

Electric as well.

Tricia K. Arndt

Because you have to have the, it's an agenda item to set the hearing in June and then it has to happen. So it's two separate, and then if there's a public hearing with it, too.

Dave Hugg

Yeah, the problem there is the electric The hearing is in mid-June, you know, and that's by then we should have had the budget pretty well wrapped up, not just presenting it for the first for the first consideration. So.

Dave Hugg

Okay, take some food home, we've got plenty in there, thanks.

Fred A. Neil

Thank you, Dave. And...

Sharon Duca

Thank you, Council.

Fred A. Neil

And those staff that remained, and those members of the Council who've remained. Thank you.

Dave Hugg

You're welcome.

Sharon Duca

We appreciate you. Thank you.

Dave Hugg

Great. Thank you all, folks.

Tricia K. Arndt

Is the meeting adjourned?

Fred A. Neil

Meeting adjourned. Yes.